997 prices, how are they?
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If you can afford it and don't worry about depreciation, get the 2009. It has what seems to be a much better engine on paper with a lot less moving parts and NO intermediate shaft to worry about. The "integrated dry sump" wet sump is much improved over the M97. In fact, there are many advantages on top of the mid $80k base price on an S to make our 1st Gen 997s obsolete and maybe not desirable anymore. I am thinking on getting rid of mine and getting a 2004 or 2005 Turbo with the GT1 engine and save a lot of money as the 996 Turbo is now a great bargain.
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If you can afford it and don't worry about depreciation, get the 2009. It has what seems to be a much better engine on paper with a lot less moving parts and NO intermediate shaft to worry about. The "integrated dry sump" wet sump is much improved over the M97. In fact, there are many advantages on top of the mid $80k base price on an S to make our 1st Gen 997s obsolete and maybe not desirable anymore. I am thinking on getting rid of mine and getting a 2004 or 2005 Turbo with the GT1 engine and save a lot of money as the 996 Turbo is now a great bargain.
Jason
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Jason, I agree. Only time will tell as what is on paper may not always reflect reality. One of the major things that worry me is that the new car may make the regular 996s and 997s become like the 964, the forgotten Porsches or the Porsche no one wants. If it comes out to be much better, more reliable and more efficient on top of the fact that the base prices for all of them are not that much more than the base prices of the 1st Gen 997s, only by selling the cars cheaply will entice people to buy them as they are going to be sandwiched between the 993s and the 2nd Gen 997s, once the 997.2s come out on the second hand market. That is what is making me think about doing what I didn't think about doing which is to sell my car before its value plummets more than it has. Maybe sell the car to lock in he highest value I can and wait until Spring next year and buy with a clear head a GT1 engined car be it a 996 Turbo, 997 Turbo or even a very nice late model 993 Turbo. It seems the economy is not getting better any time soon so there may be nice picks out there come Spring 2009. Who knows!
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Joined: Oct 2007
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From: San Diego
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Jason, I agree. Only time will tell as what is on paper may not always reflect reality. One of the major things that worry me is that the new car may make the regular 996s and 997s become like the 964, the forgotten Porsches or the Porsche no one wants. If it comes out to be much better, more reliable and more efficient on top of the fact that the base prices for all of them are not that much more than the base prices of the 1st Gen 997s, only by selling the cars cheaply will entice people to buy them as they are going to be sandwiched between the 993s and the 2nd Gen 997s, once the 997.2s come out on the second hand market. That is what is making me think about doing what I didn't think about doing which is to sell my car before its value plummets more than it has. Maybe sell the car to lock in he highest value I can and wait until Spring next year and buy with a clear head a GT1 engined car be it a 996 Turbo, 997 Turbo or even a very nice late model 993 Turbo. It seems the economy is not getting better any time soon so there may be nice picks out there come Spring 2009. Who knows!
I have always been a Porsche fan. In fact, before I bought my 08 M3 my plan was to buy a 997. However, at the time the prices were not that comparable. I guess I can thank hard economic times for making my dream car way more affordable. What is interesting, though, is how I came to the decision to sell the M3 and purchase a Porsche. I was reading a copy of European Car magazine and I was intrigued by an article about a 70's vintage 911 that the owner had modded with original Porsche parts and drives everyday. What I noticed was how great the car looked. How, although being over 30 years old, the car still looked cool, still got my attention, and was probably hella fun to drive.
Its funny how you mentioned the 964 because at the time I was hoping to have my own well used 911 and the 964 looked like the right choice for me. The 964 has timeless Porsche lines, enough performance to be hella fun to drive, and would be affordable. But then something clicked... Porsche 911's are always cool!! I drool over well taken care of modded 70's era Porsche's the same that I do over GT3's. Why did I ever get another BMW? (Answer: I got a hell of a deal!)
So I went out to find a 997 but with some options to make it unique. Like you, my 997 has the aero kit. The GT3 styled aero components, along with the GT3, and GT3RS are in my opinion, some of the best looking Porsches ever and will be hard to top! Honestly, I think the 997 is going to age very well. If I take good enough care of her, I imagine that in 30 years some young guy like myself might drool over her!
Do not worry too much about the engine. I read in Excellence that they consider the Porsche 3.8L flat six to be one of the best engines of all time and that they do not even start to get broken in till over 100K miles
. I guess only time will tell on that one. It appears you are feeling a little remorse over the fact that your baby is no longer the new kid on the block and are worried the 997.2 and the soon to come 998 will out shine it.
I do not really see anything about the 997.2 that makes me want to run out and purchase one. Unless you really want PDK. But coming from someone that owned a MDCT 08 M3, I do not think its worth it. I am 6spd guy, I was just fighting it.
From a performance standpoint the 997.1S is an amazing car, low 4 second 0-60 and a top end of over 180mph is insane! Unless you are serious trackster, who needs more than that?
As for the 996? Well shame on Porsche for making what is fundamentally a great drivers car look the way it does. The lights and introduction to water cooling just put a bad taste in the mouth of the average Porschefile....That being said, a 996 GT3 or Aero Kitted C2 is a beautiful car!
My advice would be to keep your car. The hit you are going to take in todays economy is going to bring you to tears! Not to mention your car is great looking and will continue to be great looking for many years to come. 997S with X51?....SICK!
Jason
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While your concerns have merit, I dont 100% agree. I just purchased a 997.1S after trading in my 2008 M3 that I drove for 1800 miles before selling. The main reason I did this is because I was just not happy with the 2008 M3 no matter how advanced or improved it was over the previous gen, even with the MDCT tranny. I also own a 1998 M3 and I have a love affair with that car that will never die, despite its meager HP output and outdated technology.
I have always been a Porsche fan. In fact, before I bought my 08 M3 my plan was to buy a 997. However, at the time the prices were not that comparable. I guess I can thank hard economic times for making my dream car way more affordable. What is interesting, though, is how I came to the decision to sell the M3 and purchase a Porsche. I was reading a copy of European Car magazine and I was intrigued by an article about a 70's vintage 911 that the owner had modded with original Porsche parts and drives everyday. What I noticed was how great the car looked. How, although being over 30 years old, the car still looked cool, still got my attention, and was probably hella fun to drive.
Its funny how you mentioned the 964 because at the time I was hoping to have my own well used 911 and the 964 looked like the right choice for me. The 964 has timeless Porsche lines, enough performance to be hella fun to drive, and would be affordable. But then something clicked... Porsche 911's are always cool!! I drool over well taken care of modded 70's era Porsche's the same that I do over GT3's. Why did I ever get another BMW? (Answer: I got a hell of a deal!)
So I went out to find a 997 but with some options to make it unique. Like you, my 997 has the aero kit. The GT3 styled aero components, along with the GT3, and GT3RS are in my opinion, some of the best looking Porsches ever and will be hard to top! Honestly, I think the 997 is going to age very well. If I take good enough care of her, I imagine that in 30 years some young guy like myself might drool over her!
Do not worry too much about the engine. I read in Excellence that they consider the Porsche 3.8L flat six to be one of the best engines of all time and that they do not even start to get broken in till over 100K miles. I guess only time will tell on that one.
It appears you are feeling a little remorse over the fact that your baby is no longer the new kid on the block and are worried the 997.2 and the soon to come 998 will out shine it.
I do not really see anything about the 997.2 that makes me want to run out and purchase one. Unless you really want PDK. But coming from someone that owned a MDCT 08 M3, I do not think its worth it. I am 6spd guy, I was just fighting it.
From a performance standpoint the 997.1S is an amazing car, low 4 second 0-60 and a top end of over 180mph is insane! Unless you are serious trackster, who needs more than that?
As for the 996? Well shame on Porsche for making what is fundamentally a great drivers car look the way it does. The lights and introduction to water cooling just put a bad taste in the mouth of the average Porschefile....That being said, a 996 GT3 or Aero Kitted C2 is a beautiful car!
My advice would be to keep your car. The hit you are going to take in todays economy is going to bring you to tears! Not to mention your car is great looking and will continue to be great looking for many years to come. 997S with X51?....SICK!
Jason
I have always been a Porsche fan. In fact, before I bought my 08 M3 my plan was to buy a 997. However, at the time the prices were not that comparable. I guess I can thank hard economic times for making my dream car way more affordable. What is interesting, though, is how I came to the decision to sell the M3 and purchase a Porsche. I was reading a copy of European Car magazine and I was intrigued by an article about a 70's vintage 911 that the owner had modded with original Porsche parts and drives everyday. What I noticed was how great the car looked. How, although being over 30 years old, the car still looked cool, still got my attention, and was probably hella fun to drive.
Its funny how you mentioned the 964 because at the time I was hoping to have my own well used 911 and the 964 looked like the right choice for me. The 964 has timeless Porsche lines, enough performance to be hella fun to drive, and would be affordable. But then something clicked... Porsche 911's are always cool!! I drool over well taken care of modded 70's era Porsche's the same that I do over GT3's. Why did I ever get another BMW? (Answer: I got a hell of a deal!)
So I went out to find a 997 but with some options to make it unique. Like you, my 997 has the aero kit. The GT3 styled aero components, along with the GT3, and GT3RS are in my opinion, some of the best looking Porsches ever and will be hard to top! Honestly, I think the 997 is going to age very well. If I take good enough care of her, I imagine that in 30 years some young guy like myself might drool over her!
Do not worry too much about the engine. I read in Excellence that they consider the Porsche 3.8L flat six to be one of the best engines of all time and that they do not even start to get broken in till over 100K miles
. I guess only time will tell on that one. It appears you are feeling a little remorse over the fact that your baby is no longer the new kid on the block and are worried the 997.2 and the soon to come 998 will out shine it.
I do not really see anything about the 997.2 that makes me want to run out and purchase one. Unless you really want PDK. But coming from someone that owned a MDCT 08 M3, I do not think its worth it. I am 6spd guy, I was just fighting it.
From a performance standpoint the 997.1S is an amazing car, low 4 second 0-60 and a top end of over 180mph is insane! Unless you are serious trackster, who needs more than that?
As for the 996? Well shame on Porsche for making what is fundamentally a great drivers car look the way it does. The lights and introduction to water cooling just put a bad taste in the mouth of the average Porschefile....That being said, a 996 GT3 or Aero Kitted C2 is a beautiful car!
My advice would be to keep your car. The hit you are going to take in todays economy is going to bring you to tears! Not to mention your car is great looking and will continue to be great looking for many years to come. 997S with X51?....SICK!
Jason
I agree with your assessment on the 997 as being a real looker. I love the way it looks and how it emulates a bit the 993. I do think it'll age gracefully, of course, and I don't feel like going to the dealership and getting the new car because there isn't anything there tangible that makes it more desirable than mine yet. You see, I got 381 hp vs 385 hp on the new one and 306 ft-lbs of torque vs 310 ft-lbs for the new one - hardly any difference at all in straight line performance. Yes, the new one can have SPASM and a limited slip differential but I don't track my baby since I want it to last. I can solve the limited slip differential issue by getting one from Guard Transmission or Quaife at some point once my warranty is expired but, again, I haven't had the need for it in street driving as the ABD that is incorporated on the PSM has sufficed to date. So, just like you, I don't have the urge to run to the dealer to get the new kid on the block as mine still has got it. And, if we try to play the game of having the latest and greatest, it will never end as it is the nature of technology to improve constantly and the new kid will be old news some day. The only concern is in case the new 9A1 engine proves to be bulletproof and the M96/M97 pales in comparison. Anyways, I read the article in the new Excellence about improving the engines if they break out of warranty and there is a future for the M96/M97 powerplants as there are so many out there that an aftermarket industry is eventually going get bigger.
It's too bad that with today's economy our car values are hurting. I really don't want to take a huge hit but I was researching today and there is no way I want to sell my $123k Carrera S for the high $60ks or maybe, if I am lucky, the mid $70ks as I don't feel I've gotten $50k +or- out of my car yet! You are right about that. Our cars have plenty of performance and whoever says anything to the contrary is either an awesome driver that can squeeze every last bit of performance out of the car (big league driver), is just a straight line guy or is full of it. For example, a fellow PCA member from my region has a regular 2001 996 Carrera that only has Euro M030 suspension, GT3 wheels with street tires and GT3 sway bars and he keeps up and he has lapped guys in 997 GT3s and even RSs and Turbos on the twisty bit at Roebling Road in Georgia in a 20 minute session of DE. There is plenty of performance indeed in even the basic cars. Of course, all things being equal, a similarly skilled driver would be faster in a newer, more powerful car without a doubt.
Finally, I am really pleased to know there are others that like the Aerokit on the 997s and 996s. I for one need to have it. I respect people who prefer not to have it but for me it is a must! The X51 is something I wouldn't consider again and would advise anyone not to install it because it is too expensive and you won't get a return on the investment come resale time. That is my case exactly. I love the X51, don't get me wrong, but I would lose most of the $15,000 price if I sell the car. It's great if you find it on an used car, of course. I guess my only regret is not having ordered the car in Speed Yellow or Guards Red, choosing Arctic Silver instead for ease of sale were I to do that. Hindsight is always 20/20.
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Jason, I also own a pristine 1987 Carrera Coupé and I have owned a Porsche of one sort or another since I was 19 years old, including a 944, a 944 Turbo and a 968. I find my 1987 Carrera a lot of fun and is the car I take to the track for the challenge it is on its own. I mentioned about the 964 being the forgotten Porsche because it is widely known not to have as many followers as the 993 that came after and as the 3.2 or SC, not out of a personal opinion. Nevertheless, I would love to own an RS America for sure. I personally like the 964 Carrera 2, the Turbo, the Turbo 3.6 and the RS America, not to mention the Euro only RS and Turbo S.
I agree with your assessment on the 997 as being a real looker. I love the way it looks and how it emulates a bit the 993. I do think it'll age gracefully, of course, and I don't feel like going to the dealership and getting the new car because there isn't anything there tangible that makes it more desirable than mine yet. You see, I got 381 hp vs 385 hp on the new one and 306 ft-lbs of torque vs 310 ft-lbs for the new one - hardly any difference at all in straight line performance. Yes, the new one can have SPASM and a limited slip differential but I don't track my baby since I want it to last. I can solve the limited slip differential issue by getting one from Guard Transmission or Quaife at some point once my warranty is expired but, again, I haven't had the need for it in street driving as the ABD that is incorporated on the PSM has sufficed to date. So, just like you, I don't have the urge to run to the dealer to get the new kid on the block as mine still has got it. And, if we try to play the game of having the latest and greatest, it will never end as it is the nature of technology to improve constantly and the new kid will be old news some day. The only concern is in case the new 9A1 engine proves to be bulletproof and the M96/M97 pales in comparison. Anyways, I read the article in the new Excellence about improving the engines if they break out of warranty and there is a future for the M96/M97 powerplants as there are so many out there that an aftermarket industry is eventually going get bigger.
It's too bad that with today's economy our car values are hurting. I really don't want to take a huge hit but I was researching today and there is no way I want to sell my $123k Carrera S for the high $60ks or maybe, if I am lucky, the mid $70ks as I don't feel I've gotten $50k +or- out of my car yet! You are right about that. Our cars have plenty of performance and whoever says anything to the contrary is either an awesome driver that can squeeze every last bit of performance out of the car (big league driver), is just a straight line guy or is full of it. For example, a fellow PCA member from my region has a regular 2001 996 Carrera that only has Euro M030 suspension, GT3 wheels with street tires and GT3 sway bars and he keeps up and he has lapped guys in 997 GT3s and even RSs and Turbos on the twisty bit at Roebling Road in Georgia in a 20 minute session of DE. There is plenty of performance indeed in even the basic cars. Of course, all things being equal, a similarly skilled driver would be faster in a newer, more powerful car without a doubt.
Finally, I am really pleased to know there are others that like the Aerokit on the 997s and 996s. I for one need to have it. I respect people who prefer not to have it but for me it is a must! The X51 is something I wouldn't consider again and would advise anyone not to install it because it is too expensive and you won't get a return on the investment come resale time. That is my case exactly. I love the X51, don't get me wrong, but I would lose most of the $15,000 price if I sell the car. It's great if you find it on an used car, of course. I guess my only regret is not having ordered the car in Speed Yellow or Guards Red, choosing Arctic Silver instead for ease of sale were I to do that. Hindsight is always 20/20.
I agree with your assessment on the 997 as being a real looker. I love the way it looks and how it emulates a bit the 993. I do think it'll age gracefully, of course, and I don't feel like going to the dealership and getting the new car because there isn't anything there tangible that makes it more desirable than mine yet. You see, I got 381 hp vs 385 hp on the new one and 306 ft-lbs of torque vs 310 ft-lbs for the new one - hardly any difference at all in straight line performance. Yes, the new one can have SPASM and a limited slip differential but I don't track my baby since I want it to last. I can solve the limited slip differential issue by getting one from Guard Transmission or Quaife at some point once my warranty is expired but, again, I haven't had the need for it in street driving as the ABD that is incorporated on the PSM has sufficed to date. So, just like you, I don't have the urge to run to the dealer to get the new kid on the block as mine still has got it. And, if we try to play the game of having the latest and greatest, it will never end as it is the nature of technology to improve constantly and the new kid will be old news some day. The only concern is in case the new 9A1 engine proves to be bulletproof and the M96/M97 pales in comparison. Anyways, I read the article in the new Excellence about improving the engines if they break out of warranty and there is a future for the M96/M97 powerplants as there are so many out there that an aftermarket industry is eventually going get bigger.
It's too bad that with today's economy our car values are hurting. I really don't want to take a huge hit but I was researching today and there is no way I want to sell my $123k Carrera S for the high $60ks or maybe, if I am lucky, the mid $70ks as I don't feel I've gotten $50k +or- out of my car yet! You are right about that. Our cars have plenty of performance and whoever says anything to the contrary is either an awesome driver that can squeeze every last bit of performance out of the car (big league driver), is just a straight line guy or is full of it. For example, a fellow PCA member from my region has a regular 2001 996 Carrera that only has Euro M030 suspension, GT3 wheels with street tires and GT3 sway bars and he keeps up and he has lapped guys in 997 GT3s and even RSs and Turbos on the twisty bit at Roebling Road in Georgia in a 20 minute session of DE. There is plenty of performance indeed in even the basic cars. Of course, all things being equal, a similarly skilled driver would be faster in a newer, more powerful car without a doubt.
Finally, I am really pleased to know there are others that like the Aerokit on the 997s and 996s. I for one need to have it. I respect people who prefer not to have it but for me it is a must! The X51 is something I wouldn't consider again and would advise anyone not to install it because it is too expensive and you won't get a return on the investment come resale time. That is my case exactly. I love the X51, don't get me wrong, but I would lose most of the $15,000 price if I sell the car. It's great if you find it on an used car, of course. I guess my only regret is not having ordered the car in Speed Yellow or Guards Red, choosing Arctic Silver instead for ease of sale were I to do that. Hindsight is always 20/20.
Guards Red Aero 997S with color matched 19's, color matched adaptive sport seat backs, color matched interior trim, color matched center console, Guards Red guages, and Guards Red seat belts!!!
Whoever specced the car was brave....
I will post pics when I get off of the truck next week....
Jason
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