dealer said first service/oil change is at 20K??

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Jan 28, 2009 | 08:18 AM
  #16  
speaking of which, how hard is it to access the drain plug from the rear of the car when its not lifted? Im a huge guy and i feel as thought my head wont even fit under that rear bumper! haha
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Jan 28, 2009 | 08:30 AM
  #17  
Quote: speaking of which, how hard is it to access the drain plug from the rear of the car when its not lifted? Im a huge guy and i feel as thought my head wont even fit under that rear bumper! haha

Easy to reach plug. If you need more room, just drive it up on a couple of 2 X 6's.
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Jan 28, 2009 | 08:31 AM
  #18  
and where is the filter?
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Jan 28, 2009 | 08:34 AM
  #19  
Cartrege Filter is located in the plastic filter housing mtd vertically above and forward of the oil sump pan right side
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Jan 28, 2009 | 08:35 AM
  #20  
does anyone have a pic of the under side of their car up on a lift?
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Jan 28, 2009 | 08:38 AM
  #21  
Here's the part that's really interesting to me: Theoretically, the dealer wants you to service your car more frequently as they make money from the service side. So a 10,000 mi oil service interval would be preferable from their point of view.

The Porsche family owned dealer I bought my car from in NJ said that I can stick to 20,000 or every two years, whichever comes first. The Sonic owned dealer I went to see for service said that I should have it done annually, regardless of the mileage.

Somewhere in between is probably the right answer. Nonetheless, why would Porsche officially set the interval to be too high?
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Jan 28, 2009 | 08:48 AM
  #22  
Quote: Here's the part that's really interesting to me: Theoretically, the dealer wants you to service your car more frequently as they make money from the service side. So a 10,000 mi oil service interval would be preferable from their point of view.

The Porsche family owned dealer I bought my car from in NJ said that I can stick to 20,000 or every two years, whichever comes first. The Sonic owned dealer I went to see for service said that I should have it done annually, regardless of the mileage.

Somewhere in between is probably the right answer. Nonetheless, why would Porsche officially set the interval to be too high?

I already explained that earlier. In order to meet the mandate that they reduce oil waste in their vehicles and to be able to advertise a lower maintenance cost for owners. It is marketing ONLY and is in conflict with proper engine maintenance.
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Jan 28, 2009 | 08:51 AM
  #23  
Quote: I already explained that earlier. In order to meet the mandate that they reduce oil waste in their vehicles and to be able to advertise a lower maintenance cost for owners. It is marketing ONLY and is in conflict with proper engine maintenance.
Are there any actual porsche tech's on this forum that can speak up on this issue? I would love to know if they are seeing damage done because of this or not. I cant see how oil can hide metal flakes and such in the engine unless it gums up and sticks to the bottom of the pan, which is even worse!
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Jan 28, 2009 | 08:51 AM
  #24  
Oil filters serve a purpose, to filter the solid contaminants (i.e. the mentioned "metal shavings"). Modern synthetic lubricants and their additive packages are quite capable of meeting and exceeding all requirements for 20k miles. Old dino oils would break down much faster.

Lighter weights (lower viscosity) provide less drag on moving/rotating components thereby increasing fuel mileage and increasing horsepower and engine responsiveness. Thinner lubricant films on modern lubes are far more effective than the thicker films from the dino oils.

Get with the program and understand what has changed in the automotive world over the past, oh, 30 years!

Flame away...

Or maybe you prefer to service your oil bath air cleaner and inhale the fumes from crankcase draft tubes?
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Jan 28, 2009 | 08:54 AM
  #25  
Quote: Oil filters serve a purpose, to filter the solid contaminants (i.e. the mentioned "metal shavings"). Modern synthetic lubricants and their additive packages are quite capable of meeting and exceeding all requirements for 20k miles. Old dino oils would break down much faster.

Lighter weights (lower viscosity) provide less drag on moving/rotating components thereby increasing fuel mileage and increasing horsepower and engine responsiveness. Thinner lubricant films on modern lubes are far more effective than the thicker films from the dino oils.

Get with the program and understand what has changed in the automotive world over the past, oh, 30 years!

Flame away...

Or maybe you prefer to service your oil bath air cleaner and inhale the fumes from crankcase draft tubes?
this sounds pretty logical...
What weight oil are you running then?
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Jan 28, 2009 | 09:31 AM
  #26  
I plan on yearly changes or 10k miles, whatever comes first.

Metal shavings are few and far between in modern engines with tighter tolerances and improvements in forgings, castings, machining etc.
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Jan 28, 2009 | 10:10 AM
  #27  
Quote: Oil filters serve a purpose, to filter the solid contaminants (i.e. the mentioned "metal shavings"). Modern synthetic lubricants and their additive packages are quite capable of meeting and exceeding all requirements for 20k miles. Old dino oils would break down much faster.

Lighter weights (lower viscosity) provide less drag on moving/rotating components thereby increasing fuel mileage and increasing horsepower and engine responsiveness. Thinner lubricant films on modern lubes are far more effective than the thicker films from the dino oils.

Get with the program and understand what has changed in the automotive world over the past, oh, 30 years!

Flame away...

Or maybe you prefer to service your oil bath air cleaner and inhale the fumes from crankcase draft tubes?

Oil filters only work with solid contaminents (you hope) Acids and moisture are not filtered nor are solids smaller than 10 microns in size. Additionally, your filter becomes less efficient as time goes by and these small contaminents build up in the filter element. Oil can bypass the filter if pressure builds up too high, allowing unfiltered oil to roam the engine. Dirty oil not only contributes to unecessary wear on the engine but forms sludge in many parts of the oil system. Sludge also mixes with the oil, creating air in the oil and therefore reduces the oil's lubrication and cooling ability.

People argue that a 15w50 oil reduces flow (which it does not) yet pay no attention to the REAL flow reduction of the oil filter as it becomes dirty.

It is also funny that Mobil does not recommend a 20,000 mile change interval with their 0W40. They suggest using their Extended Performance Oils to increase time between changes.
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Jan 28, 2009 | 12:29 PM
  #28  
Quote: Oil filters only work with solid contaminents (you hope) Acids and moisture are not filtered nor are solids smaller than 10 microns in size. Additionally, your filter becomes less efficient as time goes by and these small contaminents build up in the filter element. Oil can bypass the filter if pressure builds up too high, allowing unfiltered oil to roam the engine.

People argue that a 15w50 oil reduces flow (which it does not) yet pay no attention to the REAL flow reduction of the oil filter as it becomes dirty.
If have a situation, in a modern engine, serviced per the owners manual recommended intervals, and experience the oil filter bypassing due to contaminant overload (plugging), you have much more to worry about than more frequent oil changes. Like an imminent grenading of the internals. Seriously. If you are running an effective air filter (external contaminants), and your internal tolerances are in spec (internal contaminants), very little material is generated to be caught in the filter.

Acid and moisture contamination present potential problems to consider only under "severe" use conditions. Such as infrequent vehicle use combined with very short trips. For example driving a couple times per week for less than 10 miles.

Your owners manual should spell out a shortened service interval for that kind of situation.

Modern cars driven under normal conditions do not need, nor benefit in any way from oil/filter changes more frequently than specified in the service recommendations. Running a higher weight (thicker) motor oil than recommended in the owners manual, for a given ambient temperature range, in a healthy engine, offers no benefits and indeed is deleterious to efficient operation.

A tired, loose, engine with worn rings and worn bearings can have its oil consumption reduced by increasing viscosity, but it is still a tired engine and needs the base problems fixed, not disguised by increasing viscosity beyond what is recommended in the owners manual.
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Jan 28, 2009 | 12:56 PM
  #29  
Quote: If have a situation, in a modern engine, serviced per the owners manual recommended intervals, and experience the oil filter bypassing due to contaminant overload (plugging), you have much more to worry about than more frequent oil changes. Like an imminent grenading of the internals. Seriously. If you are running an effective air filter (external contaminants), and your internal tolerances are in spec (internal contaminants), very little material is generated to be caught in the filter.

Acid and moisture contamination present potential problems to consider only under "severe" use conditions. Such as infrequent vehicle use combined with very short trips. For example driving a couple times per week for less than 10 miles.

Your owners manual should spell out a shortened service interval for that kind of situation.

Modern cars driven under normal conditions do not need, nor benefit in any way from oil/filter changes more frequently than specified in the service recommendations. Running a higher weight (thicker) motor oil than recommended in the owners manual, for a given ambient temperature range, in a healthy engine, offers no benefits and indeed is deleterious to efficient operation.

A tired, loose, engine with worn rings and worn bearings can have its oil consumption reduced by increasing viscosity, but it is still a tired engine and needs the base problems fixed, not disguised by increasing viscosity beyond what is recommended in the owners manual.

Just goes to show that marketing works. They hooked you.

BTW: You never commented on the fact that Mobil does not recommend going 20,000 miles (or even 15,000) using their 0W40. How do you reconcile this with your statement "Modern synthetic lubricants and their additive packages are quite capable of meeting and exceeding all requirements for 20k miles"?

FYI. Some oil in your 997 may very well bypass the filter on a daily basis. It is not a sign of a bad engine but a normal function of the filtering system.
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Jan 28, 2009 | 02:12 PM
  #30  
Here's another point -- If the car is leased --Porsche owns it . I see no sense to going beyond what they request with their car.

If the car is purchased --you own it .

Porsche makes recommendations but climate/altitude/driving style - are so varied that I feel its best to examine this on a case by case evaluation.
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