997 COLD AIR Intake kit by Fabspeed Motorsport
#16
10-15-2004, 10:00 PM
25-30% more air flow thru a 3" hose with or without boundary layer turbulence.
Can you provide flow-bench test results to back-up this claim?
Removing the plastic screen in front of the mass airflow sensor would indeed give cause to invalidate the factory Porsche warranty in case of a MAF failure.
Can you provide flow-bench test results to back-up this claim?
Removing the plastic screen in front of the mass airflow sensor would indeed give cause to invalidate the factory Porsche warranty in case of a MAF failure.
#18
10-21-2004, 07:12 AM
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Originally posted by caf
I find it interesting that none of your earlier posts talk about any power gain, just increased airflow. Then when people push you about power gains, you respond that we'll be dynoing it soon.
You mean to tell me you developed this new product for a new model (the 997), and now have it on the market, yet you STILL haven't dyno'ed it? Exactly what was involved in the R&D process for this product that it didn't include a dyno somewhere along the way? I would think a well designed product would require many, many, many dyno runs to adequately fine-tune the product. And the previous 6-8hp in the 996 series is almost nothing; it would take VERY controlled, multiple run dynos to truly detect a difference (what, about 2%) that small. Often, tuners of airboxes just take the worst run of the pre-mod car and then the best run of the post air box car, and VOILA! horsepower is up a remarkable 2% ! (Not to say that was true in your case, of course).
Excuse me for being blunt, I'm just a real skeptic of "performance" air box mods in general. If people want to buy them to achieve a different sound quality, that's one thing, but they should know that the evidence of any real power gains (in my experience) is not there. I would also refer those interested to Steve Dinan's white paper on tuner dyno runs, and how they can be quite erroneous in their results.
I find it interesting that none of your earlier posts talk about any power gain, just increased airflow. Then when people push you about power gains, you respond that we'll be dynoing it soon.
You mean to tell me you developed this new product for a new model (the 997), and now have it on the market, yet you STILL haven't dyno'ed it? Exactly what was involved in the R&D process for this product that it didn't include a dyno somewhere along the way? I would think a well designed product would require many, many, many dyno runs to adequately fine-tune the product. And the previous 6-8hp in the 996 series is almost nothing; it would take VERY controlled, multiple run dynos to truly detect a difference (what, about 2%) that small. Often, tuners of airboxes just take the worst run of the pre-mod car and then the best run of the post air box car, and VOILA! horsepower is up a remarkable 2% ! (Not to say that was true in your case, of course).
Excuse me for being blunt, I'm just a real skeptic of "performance" air box mods in general. If people want to buy them to achieve a different sound quality, that's one thing, but they should know that the evidence of any real power gains (in my experience) is not there. I would also refer those interested to Steve Dinan's white paper on tuner dyno runs, and how they can be quite erroneous in their results.
the best part about it, is that they will sell plenty of them.
#19
10-21-2004, 08:14 AM
1st of all the COLD AIR kit by Fabspeed makes +6hp on Bone stock 996 cars and +8HP if you use the Fabspeed maxflo exhaust.
You can feel the power and its been dynoed and proven many times.
The 997 is essentially a stronger 996 engined car with diffent sheetmetal and better interior. The airbox and filter are essentially the same and I OWN a 997 "S" and used my car and a dealers regualr 997 for development. It works just like before and is a good upgrade and value.
I am dynoing (Dynapack) my 2004 GT3 systems this week and NEXT week is all 997 with Videos and Dyno testing.
Any engine is just an airpump that burns Fuel & air................Porsche makes them ultra quiet to sell 1000s of cars.............if you can improve the intake flow and reduce the backpressure you can gain power on virtually any car. Its just a matter of quality, testing, sound levels, value and complying with emissions and warranty.
Fabspeed will allow any 997 owners to try the Cold Air upgrade kit and see for yourself that it works. If you want to dry my 997 "S" and want to come by the shop in suburban Philadelphia feel free and call anytime.
Have a great day
You can feel the power and its been dynoed and proven many times.
The 997 is essentially a stronger 996 engined car with diffent sheetmetal and better interior. The airbox and filter are essentially the same and I OWN a 997 "S" and used my car and a dealers regualr 997 for development. It works just like before and is a good upgrade and value.
I am dynoing (Dynapack) my 2004 GT3 systems this week and NEXT week is all 997 with Videos and Dyno testing.
Any engine is just an airpump that burns Fuel & air................Porsche makes them ultra quiet to sell 1000s of cars.............if you can improve the intake flow and reduce the backpressure you can gain power on virtually any car. Its just a matter of quality, testing, sound levels, value and complying with emissions and warranty.
Fabspeed will allow any 997 owners to try the Cold Air upgrade kit and see for yourself that it works. If you want to dry my 997 "S" and want to come by the shop in suburban Philadelphia feel free and call anytime.
Have a great day
#20
10-21-2004, 09:54 AM
ECU and the Improved airflow
I'm pretty new to this stuff. But I would think that the stock ECU is set up for an anticipated airflow (given altitude, air pressure, etc.) being received in the intakes. If you materially increase that airflow, does the ECU atuomatically recognize this and compensate with increased fuel flow? Will your dyno runs also show air/fuel mixtures to see if perhaps the engine is really leaning out at higher RPMS? (When you do your dynos. do you use any fans to increase airflow into the intakes?) Also, what is the basis of your claim that this mod will not void your Porsche warranty? Do you have something in writing that states this to be so? TIA.
#21
10-21-2004, 12:33 PM
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I have it on mine, sounds better, crisper throttle response. Don't know about any more hp. Overall, I like it. Would like more info re the warranty problems though. May have to take it off before I take it to the dealer for any work, then put it back later?
#22
10-21-2004, 10:34 PM
The Porsche Motronic ECU will automatically learn and compensate for the reduced backpressure of virtually any exhaust system and better flowing intake system.
The Porsche system automatically adjusts and this has been the case on each and every Porsche car since the 1950s.
All new cars engine management systems are designed to be flexible in that they have the capability to adapt to differnt octane gasolines, altitudes (low and high) temperature and like I mentioned different intake and exhaust systems. The upgrades that Fabspeed offers comply with warranty and 50 state emissions. Even Porsche offers sport mufflers and airintakes for 993s and 996s, Boxsters and etc.
Furthermore, The Magnusson Moss Act is US Federal legislation that protects anyone with any warranty on any product. No manufacturer can deny warranty on anything UNLESS the "change that one made" specifically contribuited to the warranty claim.
Fabspeed has Porsche dealers installing parts each and every day. Some dealers have their own Motorsports / Track and Drivers Education departments.
Their is no risk installing simple bolt-on parts on any new or old Porsche.
Have a great day
Joe Fabiani
The Porsche system automatically adjusts and this has been the case on each and every Porsche car since the 1950s.
All new cars engine management systems are designed to be flexible in that they have the capability to adapt to differnt octane gasolines, altitudes (low and high) temperature and like I mentioned different intake and exhaust systems. The upgrades that Fabspeed offers comply with warranty and 50 state emissions. Even Porsche offers sport mufflers and airintakes for 993s and 996s, Boxsters and etc.
Furthermore, The Magnusson Moss Act is US Federal legislation that protects anyone with any warranty on any product. No manufacturer can deny warranty on anything UNLESS the "change that one made" specifically contribuited to the warranty claim.
Fabspeed has Porsche dealers installing parts each and every day. Some dealers have their own Motorsports / Track and Drivers Education departments.
Their is no risk installing simple bolt-on parts on any new or old Porsche.
Have a great day
Joe Fabiani
#23
10-22-2004, 12:10 AM
Several points:
I think this kit would be improved by offering OEM-like black pieces.
I'm hesitant to replace the corrugated OE intake hose with a smooth one. It seems to me that the corrugation is a specific design element that PAG used for a particular reason. Perhaps to purposely create turbulent flow for better MAF readings. Before replacing the hose, I'd want to know why the OE unit is corrugated.
As for the MAF screen, its removal has long been done by car geeks, from vette guys to the bmw guys. It is a controversial mod, some of the vette guys claiming 2 hp or something (IIRC), but engine guru Jim Conforti from the bmw side of things says its there to ensure proper MAF readings. Given the controversial nature of screen removal, I wouldnt' do it, particularly on a brand new $85k 997S.
I think this kit would be improved by offering OEM-like black pieces.
I'm hesitant to replace the corrugated OE intake hose with a smooth one. It seems to me that the corrugation is a specific design element that PAG used for a particular reason. Perhaps to purposely create turbulent flow for better MAF readings. Before replacing the hose, I'd want to know why the OE unit is corrugated.
As for the MAF screen, its removal has long been done by car geeks, from vette guys to the bmw guys. It is a controversial mod, some of the vette guys claiming 2 hp or something (IIRC), but engine guru Jim Conforti from the bmw side of things says its there to ensure proper MAF readings. Given the controversial nature of screen removal, I wouldnt' do it, particularly on a brand new $85k 997S.
Last edited by frayed; 10-22-2004 at 12:12 AM.
#24
10-22-2004, 01:31 AM
You guys are so very conservative.
The Porsche AG corrugated rubber hose used on each and every 996, 997, Boxster and other cars like Vettes and BMWs...................is corrugated for 2 reasons.
1st) Its cheap to make. OEM automanufacturers try to make & keep all parts anything and everything as inexpensive as possible 2nd) its flexible an cheap & fast to install at the factory level and at repair shops.
Our 4 ply silicone miltary specification hose is Guards RED looks trick and dresses up the engine compartment.
Dryer duct hoses hurt airflow BUT engineers got the power level they have chosen in the boardroom for resale to the public.
Mass airflow plastic screens are only ther to stop DEBRIS & foreign objects from going into the engine. Ferrari, Corvette and other manufacturers are eliminating them as intelligent customers driving $50,000 to $200000 cars run airfilters all the time "24:7" and therefore the plastic screen is redundant.
The system works great on Fabspeed's $95,000 997 "S"
The Porsche AG corrugated rubber hose used on each and every 996, 997, Boxster and other cars like Vettes and BMWs...................is corrugated for 2 reasons.
1st) Its cheap to make. OEM automanufacturers try to make & keep all parts anything and everything as inexpensive as possible 2nd) its flexible an cheap & fast to install at the factory level and at repair shops.
Our 4 ply silicone miltary specification hose is Guards RED looks trick and dresses up the engine compartment.
Dryer duct hoses hurt airflow BUT engineers got the power level they have chosen in the boardroom for resale to the public.
Mass airflow plastic screens are only ther to stop DEBRIS & foreign objects from going into the engine. Ferrari, Corvette and other manufacturers are eliminating them as intelligent customers driving $50,000 to $200000 cars run airfilters all the time "24:7" and therefore the plastic screen is redundant.
The system works great on Fabspeed's $95,000 997 "S"
#25
10-22-2004, 03:11 AM
No offense, but I think you should expect people writing checks for 100k cars to be conservative.
For now, I'll buy the offered explanations, but will do some calling around to talk with a few contacts in the industry on both the corrugation and the MAF screen. If accurate, I think your kit would be great (for sound; I'm not convinced on the power side of the equation). As for butt dynos, they are highly inaccurate and oftentimes jaded.
I know this first hand after putting every mod imaginable on my M3.
I'd still prefer OE black, and not draw attention to a hose in my engine bay. . . that's just me.
For now, I'll buy the offered explanations, but will do some calling around to talk with a few contacts in the industry on both the corrugation and the MAF screen. If accurate, I think your kit would be great (for sound; I'm not convinced on the power side of the equation). As for butt dynos, they are highly inaccurate and oftentimes jaded.
I know this first hand after putting every mod imaginable on my M3.I'd still prefer OE black, and not draw attention to a hose in my engine bay. . . that's just me.
#26
10-22-2004, 03:23 AM
I'am greatly amused your claim of: increases COLD AIR airflow 25-30% to the 997 engine.
How in the world do you calculate that % claim?
P. T. Barnum was right:
"theres a sucker born every minute".
How in the world do you calculate that % claim?
P. T. Barnum was right:
"theres a sucker born every minute".
#27
10-22-2004, 01:10 PM
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Read this. I created my own " free" Helmholtz resonator eliminator 3 years ago and clued the 996 world into it. I still liked the Fabspeed kit better though and ran it on my 996 until the day I sold it.
Jan 2002 thread on Niagara cap plug
Jan 2002 thread on Niagara cap plug
#28
10-22-2004, 01:46 PM
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The only fear I have is that somehow the MAF may become fouled and they will blame the kit and not warranty the job.
1000$+
1000$+
#29
10-22-2004, 03:53 PM
Originally posted by C4S Surgeon
The only fear I have is that somehow the MAF may become fouled and they will blame the kit and not warranty the job.
1000$+
The only fear I have is that somehow the MAF may become fouled and they will blame the kit and not warranty the job.
1000$+
