I feel for you, but it could have been worst! It's actually good to see that "even in this economy" the Porsche holds it's value better than most in that price point out there. I traded a 08 M3 coupe (manual tran ) for my 09 C4S (PDK ) with somethign like 8k miles and 8 months old, and lost $12k. Didn't matter what dealer, I was originally going to trade it for an X5 for the wife at a BMW dealer and get the porsche sans-trade and I was off $20k with them! Porsche actually gave me the most for the trade. I feel that I made one of the best car purchases ever by doing that despite the loss. I guess we don't want to go to the grave with our money, now do we?

As far as the manual debate vs. PDK my $.02: time will tell for the most part if PDK holds up a tradition of it's own. As many of you hold valid opinions based on your personal experiences, I think some opinions out there are based on the old "back in the day...." logic and get pretty extreme in their prejudice. It's far from me to say that any opinion is invalid as all opinions are just that, opinions, but to base opinions purely on emotion, pure prejudice, or group-think don't tend to serve much purpose IMO. I personally test drove several manual porsches and loved it, but am a technology ***** and wanted the latest and greatest, and don't think I sacraficed anything in the process.

Obviously many people out there like or love PDK. You can count me as one of those. You can also count me as one that would say that manual has a feel all it's own, and PDK is not auto if you've ever driven one and also has a feeling all its own. Having PDK while likely not losing any performance and in fact statistically gaining performance in most categories frees up the driver both mentally and physically to concentrate on other important factors of driving - once you get used to not having to shift. I will be the first to admit that I am not the most experienced track driver or driver at high speed and special maneuvering, but I can manage. Any extra help to concentrate on other deficiancies I have are welcome to me, so long as there is not a major degradation in performance or feel. I do agree that the shifters that PDK decided to use on the steering wheel were a bad choice compared to every other car out there, but you even get used to those after a while. At this point, 6 months after purchasing my C4S, I'm not so sure if I would swap out my steering wheel for real paddle shifters if an upgrade comes to market.

Congrats to OP on the purchase and hope you enjoy!

 

Very good post.

Re the paddle shifter controversy... that too fits the rationalization you described. Actually, for a road car dual both up/down shifters on both sides are better than separate up/down paddles, especially if one wants to shift mid-turn (which you can do w/ PDK) and can't find the proper paddle.

 

No problem. I didn't want to cause such a huge debate. I actually think the PDK is a great move for Porsche as I already mentioned. I just merely stated the fact that IN MY OPINION the PDK takes away that raw feeling of controlling the whole car in a different aspect. Rowing through the gears, finding that friction point, making sure to downshift before the turns, rev matching, etc is non-existent in the PDK. Is it bad? Depends on who's driving. If the driver is more intersted in finding that right line and wants to focus soley on that, then obviously the PDK will make it that much more eaiser for the driver. I just think driving fast no longer really needs the same skills as it once did in the past. I have no problem with the PDK and would like to drive in on the track occasionally, but at the same time I still want to drive a car in it's purest form.

It's kind of like obstetrics...nowadays most doctors go straight to a c-section if they forsee even a small potential complication. It's not that it's bad, it's just so much easier...just as the PDK is easier than the 6 speed. But sometimes it's better to deliver naturally and use those harder skills than taking the easy way out by going straight for a c-section. Forceps delivery is a dying field in medicine, and I feel that with the invention of the auto-manual shifters, the 5 speed/6 speed manual will fall into the same category as the forceps delivery.

I hope none of the PDKer's out there are taking it personally, but you have to admit...it's so much easier to drive on the track than a standard 6 speed. It's not right or wrong, just differrent. But if you ask me, I'd respect someone more who can drive these cars just as fast with a 6 speed than an automatic-manual, just like I'd respect that OB doc who can deliver a baby using forceps than cutting someone open the easy way...both come out with the same result, but one requires more skill than the other.

In the end, I commend the PDK and those that truly want it. It's just not for me or some others on this board.

 

Shifting only is easier, nothing els. The car still is subject to same physical properties and must be driven properly to get the most performance. PDK has some advantages so it will be faster driven properly than the manual.

Manual has some rewards that many like, including myself. The skill to get the most out of a car remains the same regardless of transmission.

 

Actually, as some have mentioned, the car w/ PDK can shift easily on the turn with the appropriate electronically adjusted rev. match. The same cannot be said with a standard manual clutch car. It takes more skill to do it before a turn, or if one were to do it during a turn...the driver will need to match the engine RPMs to the current gear to wheel RPMs to avoid that sudden loss in tire revolution if engine speed and gear speed are incorrectly matched. So, in essence, the manual has this other "physical property" to overcome compared to the PDK.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but PDK doesn't just make the shifting easier...it also translates to making the whole drive much easier with less multi-tasking input needed from the driver.

This can be debated over and over, but I just don't understand why some think it's just as difficult or requries the same skill to drive a PDK on the track as a manual. It just isn't The manual will always require more skill to drive a car correctly, just as it will require more skill to drive a non-antilock brake or non-traction-controlled car to its potential than a car similar without all those "safety" gadgets. But regardless of transmission, I agree that many other factors of skill are needed to drive a car to its highest potential on the track.

Like I said, good move for Porsche to follow along with all the other supercars like the Superleggera, Scuderia, and GT-R. I just hope they don't go the route where all they'll offer is the PDK. It's one reason I won't ever consider a GT-R...among other reasons.

 

Was at the local dealer today. Most of the cars on the lot were PDK...they seem to be really pushing it. I wonder if part of the sales slowdown is caused by this. Those few cars that weren't PDK were devided between manual and tip (the used cars). Sad to see that choices are so limited if you want a manual car. Glad I got my '08 .

J

 

Skill is Skill.
Using your analogy then you would have greater respect for an ophthalmologist who still uses a blade rather than one who is using ultra sound .

 

Actually, if you examine the track scenario narrowly, you are absolutely correct. So when you examine the 'shifting' aspect of fast driving, a PDK does makes it easier. But examining the scenario more broadly, it only shifts the focus to other things that are harder. Ultimately, the PDK enables you to drive more quickly, forcing you to run in to other limiting factors that equivalently test your skills. And at the end of the day, it's the limit of your aggregate skills or your limitation based on your weakest skill, that defines your pace.
Do radial tires make it easier to drive versus bias plies? Sure. But you just go faster until you run into some other limit.
So the only reason to look at the PDK making things easier is if you fixate on shifting as the essence of driving. Some do, and in their case, it is all true. But removing the clutch and stick from the equation hardly turns the car in to a big video game. You just change your focus on to the next hard thing.

 

I concur, you are both correct.

To my way of thinking, what it all boils down to is whether the driver cares if they turn a boring 1:24 versus an exciting 1:26.

I'll always trade speed for increasing the dimensions of driving that yield real enjoyment. This is where we normally insert our "why we didn't buy an EVO" argument...

 

I dont take it personal, but I don´t agree either.....

I´m afraid I don´t understand the comparison you are making. When you say easier, do you mean easier for the doctor or for the lady giving birth? Since you have doc in your name you´re maybe a doctor, and maybe this is different in your country. A c-section is probably the easy way out for the patient. No pain or effort/work, just meet for the appointment, get sedated and sliced up, 5 minutes later the baby is there. All though it is actually quite a big operation with the usual risks. For the doctor the c-section must be more work as he actually has to operate which also requires very good skill, and its more costly. At a normal birth here the doctor just comes in one time or two to check that everything is ok, the midwife does some work, but the real hard and painful work is done by the patient. And this is I think the reason why the number of c-sections increases every day. The patients are afraid of the pain and hard work, and do everything they can to convince the doctors to do a c-section. As well as this there are probably some doctors who are too quick to decide on a c-section, they see minor things as big risks.
Well, it is actually a strange thing to compare an obstetrics or a patient to a driver of a car. And this topic should be in another forum, but hey, it wasnt me who brought it up.
I don´t respect the doctor who assists at a natural birth more than I respect the doctor that does a c-section. My 3 kids are "naturals" and with hardly any doctors there at all. Most of all I respect the doctor who can analyze the situation and the patients condition so good that he will make the 100% correct decision every time. Just like I really respect the driver who understands his car and the track so well that he can exploit it 100% and go as fast as it possibly can. Regardless of if its 6-speed or PDK or an other kind of dual-clutch/automatic system. Because if you can go faster with the PDK, as Verde says, this takes you to new limits which requires more of other skills.

Last year I had a 6-speed, this year a PDK. I´m much faster, and allthough I dont have to use the clutch, the new speed gives me a lot of new challenges to work with. And I do need to help it find the right gear at some curves...

+1
As I would have said it myself if my english was good enough.

 

That's really not all that bad. If it makes you feel any better, I've lost more than that on early trades (both dollars and percent). So if you are now much more happy, then I think you did the right thing. Thanks for the info.

 

I agree! I just can't imagine how pushing buttons for shifting can give you the feeling that you are truly in control. It is fun to just hold in the clutch a little longer when changing gears--ie, you have more control. Fast shifting is probably good for racing but for everyday street driving , I prefer a manual.

 

Haven't driven a PDK yet, but spent lots of time with a tip. Understand that the mechanicals are leaps and bounds better, etc., etc. But the fundamentals are the same right? It's an automatic that you can bypass and hold shifts, shift yourself, etc., etc. If this is the case, then I'd feel the same way about it as I do the tip. Taking control of the automatic transmission feels like forplay without the sex...

J

 

In my opinion PDK is a different world. I would't dream of getting a Porsche sportscar with tip, but the PDK is great. Completely different. Like spiced up better quality sex.

 

If you don't mind my asking, what is the difference between tip and PDK from a driver's perspective...aside from faster shifts and smarter electronics to pick the correct gear? What "feels" different about it?

J