"S" vs non-"S" vs driver skill.
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I often find comments/suggestions in boards such as this by supposed senior contributors to be quite polarizing and at times, purposely demean one marque or model or worse, other fellow board members. I got an S, but I also have a Boxster S, an M5, and other less glorious/powerful rides. There are many people out there that can afford Black Series, but did they get one? No.
The amount of posts does not mean a person is right, its the quality not quantity that counts...
Last edited by muifast; Aug 24, 2009 at 08:59 PM.
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Sorry if I hurt your or anyones personal feelings. That is not what I was trying to do.
I was really thinking of myself and some of my friends and conversations we have about these type of things. I would love to have a GT2...the ultimate Porsche right now but honestly can't afford it so I have a Carrera S. I must be different than most on these forums because I do not have any issues with saying I can or can't afford something. Also my difference in personal use of a Porsche seems to be different than most here then because I buy a Porsche for the sporting nature of the car, not the luxury part of the car. I actually use just about everything the S version gives me at the track.
Again, please understand I was just being open with my thoughts and did not meen to put anyone or anyone's car choice down.
I was really thinking of myself and some of my friends and conversations we have about these type of things. I would love to have a GT2...the ultimate Porsche right now but honestly can't afford it so I have a Carrera S. I must be different than most on these forums because I do not have any issues with saying I can or can't afford something. Also my difference in personal use of a Porsche seems to be different than most here then because I buy a Porsche for the sporting nature of the car, not the luxury part of the car. I actually use just about everything the S version gives me at the track.
Again, please understand I was just being open with my thoughts and did not meen to put anyone or anyone's car choice down.
If it came across as being irate then... It is one of the draw backs or benefits of an open forum such as this. However, if you read one of the other threads, he also mentioned that...
People spend money for different reasons, and definitely more than the ones that were quoted here.
I often find comments/suggestions in boards such as this by supposed senior contributors to be quite polarizing and at times, purposely demean one marque or model or worse, other fellow board members. I got an S, but I also have a Boxster S, an M5, and other less glorious/powerful rides. There are many people out there that can afford Black Series, but did they get one? No.
The amount of posts does not mean a person is right, its the quality not quantity that counts...
People spend money for different reasons, and definitely more than the ones that were quoted here.
I often find comments/suggestions in boards such as this by supposed senior contributors to be quite polarizing and at times, purposely demean one marque or model or worse, other fellow board members. I got an S, but I also have a Boxster S, an M5, and other less glorious/powerful rides. There are many people out there that can afford Black Series, but did they get one? No.
The amount of posts does not mean a person is right, its the quality not quantity that counts...
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and he is faster than me ( 997.2 with pdk vs my 997.1) but i enjoy my car no less..I still wonder if the 18" R888's I use are working better than the 19" R888's you use. I am very interested in that. If you are into it and we get bored at a event we should swap wheels for a session.
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spelling
It is unfortunate that we base carrera owners are discriminated since we don't have the S mark. My notion is that I will be satisfied with the base since I will not track the car but it's not the case when buying a marque like this. You have to have the baddest, meanest, fastest of them all. Well, it crossed my mind several times to upgrade my car to the S after just owning it for 6 months. Thank goodness I did not! I will never ever buy an S because I will walk down my dealer this weekend to order the new TURBO (500hp, proper PDK shifters, overboost)! Any S Owners here want a drag race to prove your wit? The truth is that we Porsche owners need to get the T U R B O or the G T 3 RS which bears the true character of the marque and not the base or the S or the 4 or the 4S. 
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I have read through this thread real quickly.
I have a non S Carerra. According to Jeremy Clarkson I must be a middle aged balding fat bloke, since all the young chisled jawed ones go out and buy the S!
Anyway, when buying the 911, I couldnt stretch for the S. Usually in the past I have never been satisfied when I buy the lesser model and end up buying the more expensive one in the end.
For some reason I dont feel the urge this time round. Would I like an S - absolutely. DO I want a GT3 - even more so!
Bottom line: I am thrilled with my Carrera. While I liked the Cayman S (and it was a fine handling car - the horror stories of failed power steering, grenading engines put me off ) there is really something special about owning a 911. Was never a fan of the 1st gen 996. The 996 C4S with aero package looked smart. But when I first saw the 997 - it looked perfect. People liked the Cayman, but that car was flawed from the rear 3/4 angle.
The 997.2 in base form is probably close in performance to the 997.1 S. Does that make the 997.1S a slow car? I dont think so.
I'm rambling.
If someone asked me, what Carrera to buy I would say get an S if you can afford it. And if you cant, an non S will be as good. I can think of many cars that are a lot worse than these two (I had a Merc ML320 for a day or so and it was horrible).
I have a non S Carerra. According to Jeremy Clarkson I must be a middle aged balding fat bloke, since all the young chisled jawed ones go out and buy the S!
Anyway, when buying the 911, I couldnt stretch for the S. Usually in the past I have never been satisfied when I buy the lesser model and end up buying the more expensive one in the end.
For some reason I dont feel the urge this time round. Would I like an S - absolutely. DO I want a GT3 - even more so!
Bottom line: I am thrilled with my Carrera. While I liked the Cayman S (and it was a fine handling car - the horror stories of failed power steering, grenading engines put me off ) there is really something special about owning a 911. Was never a fan of the 1st gen 996. The 996 C4S with aero package looked smart. But when I first saw the 997 - it looked perfect. People liked the Cayman, but that car was flawed from the rear 3/4 angle.
The 997.2 in base form is probably close in performance to the 997.1 S. Does that make the 997.1S a slow car? I dont think so.
I'm rambling.
If someone asked me, what Carrera to buy I would say get an S if you can afford it. And if you cant, an non S will be as good. I can think of many cars that are a lot worse than these two (I had a Merc ML320 for a day or so and it was horrible).
Last edited by afridi; Aug 25, 2009 at 08:07 AM.
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I'm really surprised by all the sensitivity on this subject. Owning a Porsche, no matter what model, is a huge accomplishment and something to be proud of in my opinion. They are all great cars and the focus should be on enjoying them. I think this forum may be tilted toward the 'S' model only because the sales numbers lean that way as well. That is a result of Porsche marketing more than anything else.
Last edited by ntlgnt1; Aug 25, 2009 at 11:40 AM.
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They've convinced me to get the T U R B O!
Vic
Vic
Last edited by gray911; Aug 25, 2009 at 12:04 PM. Reason: grammar
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Define better and define slower / faster for me please. My definitions are probably different than yours.
The "S" is not better for me. It produces a different sound, which I don't value, it uses more gas, which I don't care about, and it produces more horse power, which I don't need, not to mention that it comes with a size of wheel that I don't want.
The "S" has a bigger engine, and comes with some things standard that are options on the base model. That I can stand behind.
Faster/slower? Do you really drive at red-line in 6th gear in your car alot? Do you really race from one red light to the next? I don't. If I was racing against other cars on a track.. yes, it may matter, but then I'd be in a GT type car anyway. Otherwise, you are driving against yourself and the clock and to improve your driving skills, any car will do the trick. As was stated, driver skill is where you need to work, and it doesn't mater what you are driving to work that issue.
However, I suspect for the vast majority of drivers and where they drive their cars the vast majority of the time, the particular model of car, or trim level, is totally irrelevant as none of us are anywhere near exhausting the capabilities of the vehicle.
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It is unfortunate that we base carrera owners are discriminated since we don't have the S mark. My notion is that I will be satisfied with the base since I will not track the car but it's not the case when buying a marque like this. You have to have the baddest, meanest, fastest of them all. Well, it crossed my mind several times to upgrade my car to the S after just owning it for 6 months. Thank goodness I did not! I will never ever buy an S because I will walk down my dealer this weekend to order the new TURBO (500hp, proper PDK shifters, overboost)! Any S Owners here want a drag race to prove your wit? The truth is that we Porsche owners need to get the T U R B O or the G T 3 RS which bears the true character of the marque and not the base or the S or the 4 or the 4S.
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Define better and define slower / faster for me please. My definitions are probably different than yours.
...
However, I suspect for the vast majority of drivers and where they drive their cars the vast majority of the time, the particular model of car, or trim level, is totally irrelevant as none of us are anywhere near exhausting the capabilities of the vehicle.
...
However, I suspect for the vast majority of drivers and where they drive their cars the vast majority of the time, the particular model of car, or trim level, is totally irrelevant as none of us are anywhere near exhausting the capabilities of the vehicle.
And they are probably right - who in sane state of mind would drive a car with calipers of any color other than red, after all?
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Agree
IMHO this is a "S" biased comminuty. When someone posts a question the responses are usaully wait for the "S" and there is nothing wrong with that. The "S" is a better, faster, more capable car than the base.
But one point that is rarely brought up is drivers skill.
I attended the PSDS in Birmingham and to a man every instructor said don't worry about which porsche you have or mods you have; continue to work on your skills as a driver first. That will more than make up for whether you have an S or not.
When I decided to get a 911 I purposely went for a base with their thoughts in mind. Sure other cars are faster but can they drive it faster than someone who is a skilled driver in a somewhat slower car.
I have since attended about 8 DE's (all in the novice level) and I can't begin to come to approach using all of my boxsters capabilites. (this week I am taking out my carrera for the first time for three days.) Seat time will get me there.
Of course the best drivers will get the best out of the best cars. But if your buying your first porsche it may take years (if ever) to get to the "best" level.
Saving 7-10K and getting involved in some DE's and driving schools just may be a better route for some people interested in really challenging their cars potential.
Just another way to look at it.
No matter what, owning any porsche and driving it to your potential is a thrill we are all lucky to experience.
But one point that is rarely brought up is drivers skill.
I attended the PSDS in Birmingham and to a man every instructor said don't worry about which porsche you have or mods you have; continue to work on your skills as a driver first. That will more than make up for whether you have an S or not.
When I decided to get a 911 I purposely went for a base with their thoughts in mind. Sure other cars are faster but can they drive it faster than someone who is a skilled driver in a somewhat slower car.
I have since attended about 8 DE's (all in the novice level) and I can't begin to come to approach using all of my boxsters capabilites. (this week I am taking out my carrera for the first time for three days.) Seat time will get me there.
Of course the best drivers will get the best out of the best cars. But if your buying your first porsche it may take years (if ever) to get to the "best" level.
Saving 7-10K and getting involved in some DE's and driving schools just may be a better route for some people interested in really challenging their cars potential.
Just another way to look at it.
No matter what, owning any porsche and driving it to your potential is a thrill we are all lucky to experience.
I am a track Instructor and an SCCA racecar driver. I agree with your Birmingham Instructors. The most important thing to work on is driver skill.
I always tell my students that they will learn more in a slower car. You can find the limits of a slower car more quickly, and once you know what the limits are you can move to faster and faster cars.
So, I think you did exactly the right thing in getting a "non-S" car.
I would speculate that you would learn faster on something like a Miata, which make great track cars.
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I built my track skills years ago by karting. Infinitely best way to learn the key 'stick and rudder' skills of driving. The feel of the road, grip, g's, attitude, are undiluted by power, inertia and the civilized/soft features of a car. In that context, positioning a C as a better track trainer than a CS is just nuance. Neither are appropriate teaching tools. Which is not to say that they can't be useful to learn, and be a hoot in the process. But arguments that separate the two are just silly.
To the OP, please note that this forum is comprised by a skewed representation of the Porsche owner population. All (myself included) are a bunch of GT3 or GT2 wannabe's (flame now please).
And besides, unless you're driving a Carrera GT, it's a compromise!
To the OP, please note that this forum is comprised by a skewed representation of the Porsche owner population. All (myself included) are a bunch of GT3 or GT2 wannabe's (flame now please).
And besides, unless you're driving a Carrera GT, it's a compromise!