997 stock non-Bose audio specs
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Look - ASK A5/A15 are connected to circuitry from PCM which also spliced into 'DP door left' and tweeter, so it has to be an input, fine. Then A9/A19 shown to be connected to same 'DP door left' D3/D4? Strange.
Anyway, what matters most probably is to find out where exactly in a car those wires get spliced so signal splits into ASK and speakers, it has to be separated right there.
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This diagram drives me nuts.
Look - ASK A5/A15 are connected to circuitry from PCM which also spliced into 'DP door left' and tweeter, so it has to be an input, fine. Then A9/A19 shown to be connected to same 'DP door left' D3/D4? Strange.
Anyway, what matters most probably is to find out where exactly in a car those wires get spliced so signal splits into ASK and speakers, it has to be separated right there.
Look - ASK A5/A15 are connected to circuitry from PCM which also spliced into 'DP door left' and tweeter, so it has to be an input, fine. Then A9/A19 shown to be connected to same 'DP door left' D3/D4? Strange.
Anyway, what matters most probably is to find out where exactly in a car those wires get spliced so signal splits into ASK and speakers, it has to be separated right there.
Locating those splices will probably be a *****. My plans look like this:
* The speakers I'm planning on putting in has 2 separate cross-overs, one for the tweeters, and one for the mids and woofers.
* Buy a new brown plug that fits into the brown socket on the PCM, and run new wires to the trunk feeding my cleansweep. And leave the factory brown plug disconnected.
* Connect the wires that used to be the door woofer outputs on the amp to 2 outputs of my new amp. In the door I'll connect the woofer/mid crossover to the wires going into the old woofer. And from that cross over connect both the new woofers and mids. And thus just disconnect the old wiring for the mid.
* The wires that used to be the front inputs in the ASK amp are now only connected to the tweeters (factory brown plug at PCM disconnected, and old mid wiring disconnected). So just basically take those wires that used to go into the ASK amp and hook them up to the new amp. Replace the tweeters with the new ones and add the tweeter crossover at the same time.
Not optimal since there will be 2 loose ends on the wires going to the tweeters but it will probably be ok, it sure beats taking a part the whole dash and running new wiring to the tweeters at least.
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Yes, I think it is a good plan. Should be relatively easy to accomplish.
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I think this would work as a heart of the upgrade -
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_500PXEH...=detailed_info
It takes speaker level outputs so it will work out just fine. It will be fed with 4 channels from PCM. But it seems folks do complain that output levels from this unit are unacceptably low. Interesting. Could it be due to the fact if they fed linear pre-amp signal into it?
It is also quite frustrating to see comment on 2 units to be faulty and only 3rd one to work properly.
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_500PXEH...=detailed_info
It takes speaker level outputs so it will work out just fine. It will be fed with 4 channels from PCM. But it seems folks do complain that output levels from this unit are unacceptably low. Interesting. Could it be due to the fact if they fed linear pre-amp signal into it?
It is also quite frustrating to see comment on 2 units to be faulty and only 3rd one to work properly.
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And after some search I can see even better option is JBL MS-8. Seems to be the winner by combinations of options but it cannot be googled anywhere online to buy. Strange.
Update - it is not strange, it is just bogus. No JBL MS-8 product exists. So there is actually only one Audissey product on a market - Alpine PXE-H650.
Update - it is not strange, it is just bogus. No JBL MS-8 product exists. So there is actually only one Audissey product on a market - Alpine PXE-H650.
Last edited by utkinpol; Aug 24, 2009 at 11:07 AM.
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I just did a small system in my Mini Cooper. I used the stock head unit, added a amp and replaced the speakers and added a small sub. I learned that most stock head units employ some sort of eq for the stock speakers and this will kill the sound of an aftermarket speaker only install.
However there some excellent solutions. JL has the Clean Sweep and Alpine has the Imprint which you mentioned in your post above.
I went with the Imprint because of the Audessy calibration and the 3 band parametirc EQ plus some other features to help with soundstage. I am using Hertz speakers, Focal amp and JL 8" sub. Plenty for the little Mini Cooper.
The Porsche like the Mini has a lot of road noise in the cabin. I ended having to dynamat the doors to control the road noise and this grealty help the overall sound quality of the speakers in the door.
However there some excellent solutions. JL has the Clean Sweep and Alpine has the Imprint which you mentioned in your post above.
I went with the Imprint because of the Audessy calibration and the 3 band parametirc EQ plus some other features to help with soundstage. I am using Hertz speakers, Focal amp and JL 8" sub. Plenty for the little Mini Cooper.
The Porsche like the Mini has a lot of road noise in the cabin. I ended having to dynamat the doors to control the road noise and this grealty help the overall sound quality of the speakers in the door.
I looked at that install. Impressive but it went too far - I do not want to remove PCM as I think it will ruin Porsche`s image. I just dropped $3K into native nav install specifically because I did not want to remove PCM. You may find it odd perhaps but I do not want to alter car image at all and PCM is a major part of it.
As of drivers I was thinking about this:
http://computershopper.com/shoptalk/...nd-convertible
Will take time to find them but I love B&W. Will see. There are some other options as well from low high end segment, I`ll need to look. but I honestly think B&W should be the best available choice, their midrange drivers are magnificent.
Biggest challenge is to cut into schematics of current signal bus, again, I think it should be possible to cut into outputs of stock amp, challenge is to figure out if stock wiring has any crossovers or other circuitry after amp.
Also it would be nice to figure out if it`s possible to find pre-amp outputs there, but it is highly unlikely to happen. It`s just cutting into amplified speaker outputs significantly limits choice of high quality power amps.
May be somebody will answer on Renntech forum, will see. Most installers I think do not overcomplicate this task and simply drop their own wiring to bypass stock. It actually probably makes total sense as I highly doubt Porsche used even 12 gauge wires for their speakers. It`s the only difficult part of this project, really - to snake set of new wires across the car.
As of drivers I was thinking about this:
http://computershopper.com/shoptalk/...nd-convertible
Will take time to find them but I love B&W. Will see. There are some other options as well from low high end segment, I`ll need to look. but I honestly think B&W should be the best available choice, their midrange drivers are magnificent.
Biggest challenge is to cut into schematics of current signal bus, again, I think it should be possible to cut into outputs of stock amp, challenge is to figure out if stock wiring has any crossovers or other circuitry after amp.
Also it would be nice to figure out if it`s possible to find pre-amp outputs there, but it is highly unlikely to happen. It`s just cutting into amplified speaker outputs significantly limits choice of high quality power amps.
May be somebody will answer on Renntech forum, will see. Most installers I think do not overcomplicate this task and simply drop their own wiring to bypass stock. It actually probably makes total sense as I highly doubt Porsche used even 12 gauge wires for their speakers. It`s the only difficult part of this project, really - to snake set of new wires across the car.
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So the only question hanging in the air is what to do with that center channel in dashboard. It would be kinda stupid to just discard it but I do not see where to plug it in at all. It is amazing that Alpine did a sound processor with no central channel in it.
Without it all the rest plays into places quite nice - new speakers can be fit into 4 channels from Eclipse with their own crossovers.
BTW, did you have any issues with subwoofer connection to Alpine? I saw in some reviews people were complaining about it.
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Does the stock system use the center channel? I thought it was only for the Bose system. I never crammed my ear up there to listen.
No issues with the Alpine Imprint at all. The sub pluged right in. I did not do the installed but watched my installer do a lot of the work and it seemed seemless.
No issues with the Alpine Imprint at all. The sub pluged right in. I did not do the installed but watched my installer do a lot of the work and it seemed seemless.
I actually figured out practically an entire plan of what to do, thanks to this post contributors. Alpine PXE-H650 + Eclipse XA4200 will give good 4 channels.
So the only question hanging in the air is what to do with that center channel in dashboard. It would be kinda stupid to just discard it but I do not see where to plug it in at all. It is amazing that Alpine did a sound processor with no central channel in it.
Without it all the rest plays into places quite nice - new speakers can be fit into 4 channels from Eclipse with their own crossovers.
BTW, did you have any issues with subwoofer connection to Alpine? I saw in some reviews people were complaining about it.
So the only question hanging in the air is what to do with that center channel in dashboard. It would be kinda stupid to just discard it but I do not see where to plug it in at all. It is amazing that Alpine did a sound processor with no central channel in it.
Without it all the rest plays into places quite nice - new speakers can be fit into 4 channels from Eclipse with their own crossovers.
BTW, did you have any issues with subwoofer connection to Alpine? I saw in some reviews people were complaining about it.
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Yes, center speaker is definitely working. ASK apparently sums up left and right channels somehow to get it.
Thanks for confirmation about sub.
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Home Theater/Audio is really my thing.
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I would love for someone to unravel the mysteries of the Porsche sound system! I get the feeling that they don't want anyone to know how it is configured. Either that, or they have a really lazy bunch of engineers that cobble together a system. I also had wondered how the underseat amp could only drive 4 channels and somehow come out with 9! My thought was that they had crossovers somewhere up the line, or that they had drivers that did not need them. (outside of the tweeter high-pass crossover, that design is very plausible) Now that you folks have suggested the idea that they take some channels from the PCM and some from the amp, the mystery is starting to make some sense. Of course, you could always do a nice passive crossover network and run it off a small 4 channel amp too. You would have to do a speaker run to the tweeter and center channel. I wonder if you can get an easy run under the dashboard?
If any of you folks could confirm this schematic, it would be greatly appreciated. I was originally looking to use the Cleansweep and do a major overhaul. But I would be happiest with a simpler system!
If any of you folks could confirm this schematic, it would be greatly appreciated. I was originally looking to use the Cleansweep and do a major overhaul. But I would be happiest with a simpler system!
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crossover, that design is very plausible) Now that you folks have suggested the idea that they take some channels from the PCM and some from the amp, the mystery is starting to make some sense. Of course, you could always do a nice passive crossover network and run it off a small 4 channel amp too. You would have to do a speaker run to the tweeter and center channel. I wonder if you can get an easy run under the dashboard?
If any of you folks could confirm this schematic, it would be greatly appreciated. I was originally looking to use the Cleansweep and do a major overhaul. But I would be happiest with a simpler system!
If any of you folks could confirm this schematic, it would be greatly appreciated. I was originally looking to use the Cleansweep and do a major overhaul. But I would be happiest with a simpler system!
Center speaker is a *****. I see no solution for this, so if you want to upgrade - it will be lost. PCM generates 4 channels. So you`ll have to stick with that, pull out brown B plug from PCM and let it loose. put new one and trace it into trunk, put there new 4 channel amp and feed PCM outs into it, then put crossovers in trunk and feed `em into that plug that used to be in ASK amp. It is simplest way to avoid re-wiring your car (what is probably would worth to do, but not overly critical).
My brief study of workshop manual in section of removing door trims makes me doubt if I can do it clean/smooth enough without braking anything.
Everything looks simple on a paper but trying to remove trim elements nothing actually goes, it probably should be done by skilled person who knows precisely where to push and with what strength. Rear speaker covers come out just fine, but front doors are tricky and a lot of elements should go off before you can take entire trim down.
And without replacing speakers in doors (especially 5" woofers) this entire project does not have much sense.
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That is true.
I fear the door trim as well. When we used to do installs, we used to break lots of clips and retainers. So, we always used to order all new ones before beginning. But, the clips for a Honda are probably much cheaper than a porsche!! I think that I am going to have a porsche tech pull the trim after work.
There are a few ways to wire a "derived" center channel without much fuss, but it is never going to sound right and it will only be for "fill".
We used to use an AudioControl ESP-3 back in the day.
I have to study your diagram some more. If I could preserve the center channel from the stock amp channel and just use high level inputs for the rest, it could still be plausible to save it. BTW, thanks for the diagrams! I have never seen these before
I fear the door trim as well. When we used to do installs, we used to break lots of clips and retainers. So, we always used to order all new ones before beginning. But, the clips for a Honda are probably much cheaper than a porsche!! I think that I am going to have a porsche tech pull the trim after work.
There are a few ways to wire a "derived" center channel without much fuss, but it is never going to sound right and it will only be for "fill".
We used to use an AudioControl ESP-3 back in the day.
I have to study your diagram some more. If I could preserve the center channel from the stock amp channel and just use high level inputs for the rest, it could still be plausible to save it. BTW, thanks for the diagrams! I have never seen these before
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That is true.
I fear the door trim as well. When we used to do installs, we used to break lots of clips and retainers. So, we always used to order all new ones before beginning. But, the clips for a Honda are probably much cheaper than a porsche!! I think that I am going to have a porsche tech pull the trim after work.
...
I have to study your diagram some more. If I could preserve the center channel from the stock amp channel and just use high level inputs for the rest, it could still be plausible to save it. BTW, thanks for the diagrams! I have never seen these before
I fear the door trim as well. When we used to do installs, we used to break lots of clips and retainers. So, we always used to order all new ones before beginning. But, the clips for a Honda are probably much cheaper than a porsche!! I think that I am going to have a porsche tech pull the trim after work.
...
I have to study your diagram some more. If I could preserve the center channel from the stock amp channel and just use high level inputs for the rest, it could still be plausible to save it. BTW, thanks for the diagrams! I have never seen these before
I do not think there is any way or sense to keep stock ASK amp in. Any design that keeps it in has issues with unequal amplification from PCM and ASK that essentially ruins sound right now - the only way to get it clean is to get it from PCM directly, all 4 channels, feed `em into Alpine processor for Audissey magic and then drop it into 4 channel amp.
Step I definitely do not want to do at all is re-wiring. I do not take car apart at all - it will result in squeaks and rattles everywhere. And to do it in dealership will cost a fortune. DIY is the only way, I would not even consider it otherwise.
I really liked those Focal K2 drivers, they look very similar to B&W I have. Same design, seems like same material and folks say they do sound amazing. But sooo expensive, geesh...