http://www.bimmerfile.com/2009/08/27...e-dct-is-near/

Any thoughts ?

 

Interesting....the SMG was doomed from the outset with it's reliability problems and 'rough' and 'unpredictable' shifting behavior (I never had a problem with it. DCT has always had the problem of handling the high torque of today's higher performance cars. Thought that was worked out seeing as PDK is an option on the new TT. Guess we'll see. If the kinks get worked out, I don't see it as a fad at all. Fewer and fewer people want to row through the gears and make their left foot do work. All about lap times and 1/4 mile ET's these days which slushboxes and dual clutch variants usually do better and less about the driving 'experience'.

 

If not so ridiculous it would be laughable.

 

Which part?

 

I think the BMW crowd has faced a different scenario with DCT . Since I have an M3 I have read a few posts where the DCT car failed to downshift . It woild not surprise me if BMW opted out of it considering that its best sellers these days are 328 and 528 .

I believe that porsche is going full force with PDK introducing it into the Turbo . Nonetheless if the essay is just another example of jounalistic drivel it would not be the first .

It also appears that out of the modern double clutches Porsche has really stepped up nicely . Outside of the paddles, the boring normal mode. the jerky downshift 2 to 1st in sport auto , the PDK has more to offer than its minimal quirks .. and thus far it has been reliable. This is especially true when one looks at cars like the M3 DCT and Gtr each of which has had a few transmission snags.

The test of time will see where this goes. I think PDK is here to stay but I also think it's going to evolve and get even better with time . I can hardly wait to see the next version but I would be so disappointed if it was phased out .

 

PDK is here to stay - journalistic opinions notwithstanding, including PDK's steering buttons.

 

8 speed automatic? does a car really need that many gears!!!???

 

Another view - seems more balanced.

http://www.autonews.com/article/2009...PY02/308269992

And if it is ending soon, it seems it will make quite a dent before it does: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twin-clutch_gearbox

 

Steve -link failed.

 

Strange - same URL as Google returns, but only accessible from Google...at the bottom of the 1st page...

http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...=ZF+PDK+future

 

The author states porsche is also feeling the same way that the PDK is a short lived venture.

How can we possible know that. He gives no references or numbers.

Pure speculation.

Hey, just like cable TV you have to fill up the media with attention grabbing junk one way or another.

 

Any time someone writes, '...increasing torque exponentially' my 'idiot alert' light goes on. But there may be something to the comments. There really aren't that many performance car folks left on earth who would pay significantly more for a transmission that a highly evolved automatic can simulate for a lot less. Automatics have the advantage of dominant volume which lowers production costs and spreads the R&D investments across that high volume.
Hampered by a bad dual clutch design and a population skewed (across all of the BMW models) to autos (both for simplicity, comfort and cost), it's not surprising that BMW may be reconsidering their position.
But the percentage of 'enthusiasts' with higher discretionary income (to pay for the PDK) in the Porsche community is much higher. Higher still in Ferrari and Lambo communities. So this broad brush concern doesn't bother me much.
I still think that BMW will stick with an evolved DCT. The Bangle era hit them so hard that they still haven't found their mojo yet. They will need to revive and maintain their performance roots to separate themselves from MB and the Japanese. Having an option that can trace it's roots from racing and provide the best of what both a manual and an auto can offer would seem to be important to them.

 

My sentiments exactly. What a load of BS.

DCT and PDK are apples/oranges. The DCT has had teething problems- just read the BMW M3 forums. I would never consider buying an M3 because of the DCT issues. (not a BMW hater- I had a 335i and loved it)

I couldn't be happier with my PDK. It has needed no software updates to work perfectly. With the push of a button (s) I can tool around in luxury, or, let it snap my neck with F1 style redline upshifts. If I am so inclined I can use its Launch Control feature, repeatedly, and not void my warranty (a la Nissan GT-R).

Considering it's revolutionary nature it has been an amazingly smooth and troublefree introduction.

 

i wish they could make the PDK lighter, its 88 lbs difference.

 

ZF says that dual clutch transmissions are for high end cars... is that news?

---

ZF says Dual clutch to remain niche product
PETER ECK
AUTOMOTIVE NEWS
AUGUST 24, 2009 - 11:39 AM ET

FRIEDRICHSHAFEN -- "In the future, we see the dual clutch continuing to be more for the sports segment and especially for rear-wheel drive," said Gerhard Wagner, head of car powertrain technology at ZF Friedrichshafen AG.

The company has been delivering dual clutches to Porsche for its 911, Boxster and Cayman models for about a year. Now it also provides them for the Panamera. But it still doesn't see a huge future for them.

ZF's Brandenburg factory, which produces about 200,000 manual transmissions a year, now assembles the company's seven-speed dual clutch transmission, with a capacity of 50,000 annually. That will probably meet the volume Porsche needs.

There apparently aren't any other customers in sight for the very sporty dual clutch transmission, which is designed for torque of up to 780 newton-meters, or 575 foot-pounds, and an output of up to 530 hp.

At the same time, the transmission, known as the PDK at Porsche, is completely suited to a variety of Porsche vehicle layouts due to the sports car-maker's flexible, modular approach.

Front-, rear-, mid-engine

At Porsche, the dual clutch works with the 911's rear engine as well as with the Cayman and Boxster's mid-engine configuration. It's also suited to the Panamera's front-engine, rear-wheel-drive combination, even with all-wheel drive and a start-stop system.

ZF doesn't have a solution ready for the mass, lateral-front-engine market. Here pioneer Volkswagen dominates with its own system. VW's strength could be a problem for ZF long-term if the automaker were to decide to develop dual clutches for Porsche, which it recently acquired.

This could also be a reason for ZF's relatively reserved attitude toward transmission.

In contrast, ZF is very satisfied with its new eight-speed, fully automatic transmission, which will first be deployed in the new 12-cylinder BMW 760i. Until now, only Lexus offered such a transmission, in its luxury LS 460 sedan.

"We created a transmission with the perfect number of gears for BMW," Wagner said. "We absolutely could have achieved seven or gears, but eight gears just fit perfectly."

Eights replacing sixes

Wagner expects the eight-speed transmission to replace six-speed versions in the next few years.

"By 2013, with very few exceptions, we will have converted completely from six to eight gears," he said. But he does not see an increase beyond that number of gears in the coming years. Says Wagner: "Eight-speed torque converter transmissions will remain the state of the art for the foreseeable future."