tiptronic=crap
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 336
From: Orange County, California
Rep Power: 41
Ehhh...the debate between auto/PDK vs. manual will never end.
All I know is that someone buying a Mercedes S Class or Rolls Royce isn't going to even consider get it with a manual clutch in mind...
With that in mind, I just can't understand why people purchase a Porsche 911 and consider the automatic...
I guess it's considered a double standard (okay to get manual in sports car, but not okay to get manual in super luxury pampered Mercedes/Rolls Royce).
I bet if some of the manual guys here wanted to get their "luxury car" in a manual, most people will be shaking their heads.
That's why I shake mine every time a see an automatic sports car.
As long as the automatic guys are comfortable with their decisions, who cares what the rest of us think. There's no reason to justify your decisions. It's YOUR decision, and our opinion. If it bothered you guys that much that the hardcore manual guys talk a little "crap" about them, then there's some insecurities there.
It's like how many people on these boards talk crap about "riced-out, pimp-my-ride" Porsches. They always ask the question "Why would anyone in their right mind do that to such a nice car"?
The 911 is meant to be a true sports car rowing through those gears, finding that friction point, and heel-toe transitions. It's fine if some of you want a more subdued car by getting an automatic, but like I said...it just won't be seen on the same level (for some people).
Everytime someone asks why I didn't get a xxx car instead of the Porsche, I don't justify to that person why I got the Porsche because that person's opinion just won't change. So instead of trying to justify the automatic, just enjoy it as it's your choice and let the hardcore guys ramble on.
All I know is that someone buying a Mercedes S Class or Rolls Royce isn't going to even consider get it with a manual clutch in mind...
With that in mind, I just can't understand why people purchase a Porsche 911 and consider the automatic...
I guess it's considered a double standard (okay to get manual in sports car, but not okay to get manual in super luxury pampered Mercedes/Rolls Royce).
I bet if some of the manual guys here wanted to get their "luxury car" in a manual, most people will be shaking their heads.
That's why I shake mine every time a see an automatic sports car.
As long as the automatic guys are comfortable with their decisions, who cares what the rest of us think. There's no reason to justify your decisions. It's YOUR decision, and our opinion. If it bothered you guys that much that the hardcore manual guys talk a little "crap" about them, then there's some insecurities there.
It's like how many people on these boards talk crap about "riced-out, pimp-my-ride" Porsches. They always ask the question "Why would anyone in their right mind do that to such a nice car"?
The 911 is meant to be a true sports car rowing through those gears, finding that friction point, and heel-toe transitions. It's fine if some of you want a more subdued car by getting an automatic, but like I said...it just won't be seen on the same level (for some people).
Everytime someone asks why I didn't get a xxx car instead of the Porsche, I don't justify to that person why I got the Porsche because that person's opinion just won't change. So instead of trying to justify the automatic, just enjoy it as it's your choice and let the hardcore guys ramble on.
Last edited by rockstardoc; Sep 20, 2009 at 05:21 PM.
Banned
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,523
From: Frederick, MD
Rep Power: 129
Ehhh...the debate between auto/PDK vs. manual will never end.
All I know is that someone buying a Mercedes S Class or Rolls Royce isn't going to even consider get it with a manual clutch in mind...
With that in mind, I just can't understand why people purchase a Porsche 911 and consider the automatic...
I guess it's considered a double standard (okay to get manual in sports car, but not okay to get manual in super luxury pampered Mercedes/Rolls Royce).
I bet if some of the manual guys here wanted to get their "luxury car" in a manual, most people will be shaking their heads.
That's why I shake mine every time a see an automatic sports car.
As long as the automatic guys are comfortable with their decisions, who cares what the rest of us think. There's no reason to justify your decisions. It's YOUR decision, and our opinion. If it bothered you guys that much that the hardcore manual guys talk a little "crap" about them, then there's some insecurities there.
It's like how many people on these boards talk crap about "riced-out, pimp-my-ride" Porsches. They always ask the question "Why would anyone in their right mind do that to such a nice car"?
The 911 is meant to be a true sports car rowing through those gears, finding that friction point, and heel-toe transitions. It's fine if some of you want a more subdued car by getting an automatic, but like I said...it just won't be seen on the same level (for some people).
Everytime someone asks why I didn't get a xxx car instead of the Porsche, I don't justify to that person why I got the Porsche because that person's opinion just won't change. So instead of trying to justify the automatic, just enjoy it as it's your choice and let the hardcore guys ramble on.
All I know is that someone buying a Mercedes S Class or Rolls Royce isn't going to even consider get it with a manual clutch in mind...
With that in mind, I just can't understand why people purchase a Porsche 911 and consider the automatic...
I guess it's considered a double standard (okay to get manual in sports car, but not okay to get manual in super luxury pampered Mercedes/Rolls Royce).
I bet if some of the manual guys here wanted to get their "luxury car" in a manual, most people will be shaking their heads.
That's why I shake mine every time a see an automatic sports car.
As long as the automatic guys are comfortable with their decisions, who cares what the rest of us think. There's no reason to justify your decisions. It's YOUR decision, and our opinion. If it bothered you guys that much that the hardcore manual guys talk a little "crap" about them, then there's some insecurities there.
It's like how many people on these boards talk crap about "riced-out, pimp-my-ride" Porsches. They always ask the question "Why would anyone in their right mind do that to such a nice car"?
The 911 is meant to be a true sports car rowing through those gears, finding that friction point, and heel-toe transitions. It's fine if some of you want a more subdued car by getting an automatic, but like I said...it just won't be seen on the same level (for some people).
Everytime someone asks why I didn't get a xxx car instead of the Porsche, I don't justify to that person why I got the Porsche because that person's opinion just won't change. So instead of trying to justify the automatic, just enjoy it as it's your choice and let the hardcore guys ramble on.
So, these "hardcore" guys drive the manual huh? Those same ones with Nav, PW, PL, PS, PB, 165 way power adjustable seats, power moonroof, AC, etc....Now that's rich
btw, I drive a manual but wouldn't in a million years down those that drive a Tip/PDK.
Last edited by amerlemans; Sep 20, 2009 at 05:54 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,363
From: SF Bay Area, CA
Rep Power: 170
Well stated.
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,800
From: Tampa
Rep Power: 234
All I can say is I probably have the most experience on these boards than anyone with Tiptronic. Since I do not have a entire left leg anymore I was forced to buy 2 Carra S cars with Tiptronic. I tracked the heck out of these cars. I can say that even with the Tip downfalls I was faster around a track than most others with a 6 speed. To track a manual properly takes a lot of cordination and skill.
I now drive a C2S PDK and this car is even faster with proper rev matching down shifts and afster up shifts than any manual.
I have had manuals in the past with my Vette's and a couple of other Porsche's. I will say that if I had 2 legs i would most certainly buy a manual over a 6 speed..but...the Tip is not as bad especially on the track as most of you all think. Now that I have PDK it would be a hard decesion to make between manual and PDK for me since I love technology. I do not feel disconected in anyway from driving a car with PDK.
I now drive a C2S PDK and this car is even faster with proper rev matching down shifts and afster up shifts than any manual.
I have had manuals in the past with my Vette's and a couple of other Porsche's. I will say that if I had 2 legs i would most certainly buy a manual over a 6 speed..but...the Tip is not as bad especially on the track as most of you all think. Now that I have PDK it would be a hard decesion to make between manual and PDK for me since I love technology. I do not feel disconected in anyway from driving a car with PDK.
Registered User
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 179
From: Canada
Rep Power: 24
Before PDK, nobody said anything this bad about the Tip. It's not fair to put down the tip just because a better technology has been developed. A tip in a PCar is still an amazing drive compared to other sports cars.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 336
From: Orange County, California
Rep Power: 41
...OK, I'm kidding.
Like I said, nothing wrong with getting an automatic...it just doesn't make sense to ME. It may make sense to others...but not ME. Just like it doesn't make sense to me when guys in 2wd trucks lift them and treat them like a 4x4
So if anyone is offended by an opinion, that's unfortunate. I agree that some posts here are a little harsh and may have been expressed differently, but speaking for myself... I buy a car what it's intended for. Luxury for luxury, sports cars for speed, and 4x4s/SUV for off-roading and all around utility and hauling the bikes.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 279
From: San Diego, CA
Rep Power: 37
Sports cars and race cars are two completely different things. Racecars are supposed to be fast and easy to drive at the limit. This is one of the major reasons why people (unfairly) bash the Nissan GTR. It is missing that "raw" feeling that heavy steering and a 6-speed stick offer, despite the fact it is one of the easiest cars to drive stupid fast on and off the track.
Last edited by jherbias; Sep 20, 2009 at 09:40 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 336
From: Orange County, California
Rep Power: 41
Before Lamborghini came out with the E-Gear, Kobe Bryant had a custom made automatic Lamborghini for his wife since she couldn't drive manual.
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,574
From: CA Bay Area, US
Rep Power: 100
Bingo.
BTW, I'll offer a slightly altered transmission taxonomy that may help change the complexion of the arguments. (And, FWIW, I think these arguments are just dandy. There have been many other threads in which people criticize others' choices - wheels, wings, colors, stripes, interiors, etc. But no other issue has so many people playing defense of crying foul. Interesting).
An alternate cut may be between gearbox and torque converter (slush box to the less defensive crowds). Either 6-speed or PDK are outstanding pieces and consistent with the design of a sports car. It's only the torque converter P-cars (R.I.P.) that seem inconsistent with the overall design or mission.
Separately, I don't really think that sport- or race-cars are defined by being easier to drive on the edge. If that were true, 911's would be out of the running. They are anything but easy at the edge - the challenge that a rear-engine design poses. But sports- and race-cars are those whose edge comes at extremely high levels - of speed, g's, braking, handling. Easy or not, isn't that what we all love?
BTW, I'll offer a slightly altered transmission taxonomy that may help change the complexion of the arguments. (And, FWIW, I think these arguments are just dandy. There have been many other threads in which people criticize others' choices - wheels, wings, colors, stripes, interiors, etc. But no other issue has so many people playing defense of crying foul. Interesting).
An alternate cut may be between gearbox and torque converter (slush box to the less defensive crowds). Either 6-speed or PDK are outstanding pieces and consistent with the design of a sports car. It's only the torque converter P-cars (R.I.P.) that seem inconsistent with the overall design or mission.
Separately, I don't really think that sport- or race-cars are defined by being easier to drive on the edge. If that were true, 911's would be out of the running. They are anything but easy at the edge - the challenge that a rear-engine design poses. But sports- and race-cars are those whose edge comes at extremely high levels - of speed, g's, braking, handling. Easy or not, isn't that what we all love?
Banned
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,523
From: Frederick, MD
Rep Power: 129
Case in point See the Z06/ZR1 vs the regular C5/C6 Vettes. See the GT2 and GT3 vs the C2/C4(s).
btw - you don't have to be rich to drive a 911.
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 171
From: Escondido, CA; Estes Park, CO
Rep Power: 28
I drive a 6MT, but I can think of at least 5 good reasons to go with an automatic or PDK:
1. Significant amount of driving is done in heavy traffic conditions;
2. Second driver needs it;
3. Tracking the car;
4. Physical impairment; and,
5. Already have a manual and want something different.
1. Significant amount of driving is done in heavy traffic conditions;
2. Second driver needs it;
3. Tracking the car;
4. Physical impairment; and,
5. Already have a manual and want something different.
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,277
From: ATL
Rep Power: 72
I drive a 6MT, but I can think of at least 5 good reasons to go with an automatic or PDK:
1. Significant amount of driving is done in heavy traffic conditions;
2. Second driver needs it;
3. Tracking the car;
4. Physical impairment; and,
5. Already have a manual and want something different.
1. Significant amount of driving is done in heavy traffic conditions;
2. Second driver needs it;
3. Tracking the car;
4. Physical impairment; and,
5. Already have a manual and want something different.
Or there you go with Think and Reason - that's cheating and has no place in this discussion.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 279
From: San Diego, CA
Rep Power: 37
Bingo.
BTW, I'll offer a slightly altered transmission taxonomy that may help change the complexion of the arguments. (And, FWIW, I think these arguments are just dandy. There have been many other threads in which people criticize others' choices - wheels, wings, colors, stripes, interiors, etc. But no other issue has so many people playing defense of crying foul. Interesting).
An alternate cut may be between gearbox and torque converter (slush box to the less defensive crowds). Either 6-speed or PDK are outstanding pieces and consistent with the design of a sports car. It's only the torque converter P-cars (R.I.P.) that seem inconsistent with the overall design or mission.
Separately, I don't really think that sport- or race-cars are defined by being easier to drive on the edge. If that were true, 911's would be out of the running. They are anything but easy at the edge - the challenge that a rear-engine design poses. But sports- and race-cars are those whose edge comes at extremely high levels - of speed, g's, braking, handling. Easy or not, isn't that what we all love?
BTW, I'll offer a slightly altered transmission taxonomy that may help change the complexion of the arguments. (And, FWIW, I think these arguments are just dandy. There have been many other threads in which people criticize others' choices - wheels, wings, colors, stripes, interiors, etc. But no other issue has so many people playing defense of crying foul. Interesting).
An alternate cut may be between gearbox and torque converter (slush box to the less defensive crowds). Either 6-speed or PDK are outstanding pieces and consistent with the design of a sports car. It's only the torque converter P-cars (R.I.P.) that seem inconsistent with the overall design or mission.
Separately, I don't really think that sport- or race-cars are defined by being easier to drive on the edge. If that were true, 911's would be out of the running. They are anything but easy at the edge - the challenge that a rear-engine design poses. But sports- and race-cars are those whose edge comes at extremely high levels - of speed, g's, braking, handling. Easy or not, isn't that what we all love?
BTW paddle shifters were discovered "by accident" by John Bernard when he wanted to make his F1 cars narrower (for Ferrari), rather than looking for quicker shifts.
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 171
From: Escondido, CA; Estes Park, CO
Rep Power: 28
_______________
Don
'07 Volvo S60R
'07 BMW 328 xi
'08 MB SL 550
'07 C2S
'06 BMW 650 ci (gone)