2 weeks in...rattles and breaks?
 

I purchased a brand new 09 C4 MT, loaded with the exception of full leather, about two weeks ago. Got it for 78 and change. Intent is daily driver use. At this point, I have fairly mixed emotions.

Driving dynamic is fantastic. Everything I wanted to get back to (my first cars were rebuilt british roadsters - MG, triumph etc. and I followed that up with a 350z). Love the brakes, love the steering feel, the ridiculous things the C4 can do with a corner. Fantastic. I've wanted one for the longest time.

Back to the point. This thing rattles and buzzes more than any car I've ever driven. Just as loud inside and far more rattles than the Nissan I drove for four years. Far, far more than the 335i I rapidly bored of before trading up to this car. If porsche is suggesting that I'm paying this much money purely for the sublime suspension, brakes, handling and nice motor attached, well, they are wrong. I expect this thing to be built like a brick sh*thouse, to use a local term, for that much money. I was somewhat surprised even at the test drive at how much more car for the money the bmw provided, and that is coming from a guy who wanted a 911 his entire life and would have preferred to stay out of a 3 series his entire life.

I'm fine with a firm ride, but the rest of the car needs to be set up for a firm ride, too. Particularly if you want that much money for it - if you are talking pure performance, there are lots of other cars that may also rattle but at least would cost less. Which slowly brings me back around to my point - if the actual act of driving it weren't annoying the hell out of me when not fiendishly happy on my local curvy roads, I'd be happy as a clam. All I want is a car that doesn't sound like it is falling apart when I hit a bump after 800 miles of ownership - because I definitely hear it every single time and think "you just paid 80 grand so you have that rattle...worth it?"

Every time I hit a bump, there is an accompanying rattle which is either in the rear deck or sunroof. I'm thinking it is the sunroof, although my ears tell me it is in the rear deck over the passenger's wheel well. If I hit bumps and support the sunroof, no noise, but this could be conicidental. I would not have spec'd a sunroof, but it was on the lot with one.

The front speaker grills in the dash buzz almost constantly. Driving me crazy.

At speed, the wind whistle which I assume is coming off the mirror is quite audible - I joke to myself about the tempest that must be outside or "..twister's a comin'..." - sounds like the window isn't quite sealed but I can't find anything overtly wrong with it.

Speaking of sound, I am hoping this is related to the newness/tightness of the engine, but after startup and often just around town, the sound behind me sounds a lot more like downshifting an old column shift pickup (whiiiiiiinnnnne) than anything else I can think of.

To top that off, on the 3rd day of ownership, the knob that controls the mirrors popped off in my hand while I was trying to adjust them while getting my seating position right. The service guy acted like I was some kind of moron for being a little dissatisfied with this entire package and even wrote on the sheet "customer's first porsche".

So, are all of these things to be expected?

Now, let me further explain, I have always enjoyed sportscars. I like them because I really do like driving, not posing. However, when you start charging that much money for admission I would expect it to be well put together. I came really close to buying a Zo6 a few years back (that is a monster although not sure it is a daily driver) and decided against it because of build quality issues and the turn in felt like I was driving a larger car...which I was. I'd test driven lots of porsches before I bought this one and I don't remember lots of rattles. I actually think the cayman S may be the best one but my wife hated it. The old 350z is slower, but loud, stiff 2 seater and it rattled over big bumps but not for the first two years of ownership. My point is I am not a track guy but I wouldn't say I'm a soft poseur and understand what I just bought. But it should not buzz and rattle with every road imperfection, to the point that I first considered returning it within 48 hours of purchase - a purchase which left me sleepless with excitement.

thoughts?

I get the sunroof rattle occasionally - but mostly not. It did sound like it was coming from the rear until I did the same experiment and figured out what it was.

During cold weather I used to get an annoying rattle out of the drivers side dash - but a mention to the dealer and they adjusted something last service and it's hasn't come back for 10k miles.

As far as if it rattles or buzzes more - not for me. What I have found is it is so tightly built I do notice any rattles or buzzes more than I normally would, - like, there used to be a rattle coming from by the passenger seat when no one was in it, until I figured out it was the seat belt rattling up against the seat, adjusted it and it's gone.

I would give your dealer a chance to remedy what annoys you, and give the car time to settle in. I have never owned a car that as consistantly puts a smile on my face when I drive it, and I couldn't do that if it were rattling and buzzing away...

Congrats on your purchase and I hope you get it figured out so you enjoy it as much on the straights as the curves!

As a new owner of a leftover '08 Cab, I sympathize with your experiences. Unfortunately, I think that we are, in fact, paying all of this money for the sublime handling and suspension. I bought this car on the heels of a leased 335i convertible, and there is no comparison between the fit/finish of BMW vs Porsche, especially given the price. However, I went into the purchase expecting this type of experience so I am not regretting the purchase. If it were my only car and a daily driver I think it would be more difficult to live with, but as it is it's a blast to drive and with the top down I don't hear the rattles.
Good luck. I sympathize, but I'm afraid we've entered into a love-hate relationship that, once experienced, is going to be difficult to live without.

No rattles in my 09. None. If I hit a bump, everything hits that bump in harmony.

I am strongly considering taking some hit on this thing and getting a new m3 at 0.9% - could save me 20K on the total cost of the car. However, I have to drive the M3 first. If it is close I'll probably do it. Already tried taking this back to the dealer but I was alarmingly unimpressed - the service guy did not take me all that seriously. I have to say that the bmw folks here were nice and did take me seriously even when I had a moronic question about the tire pressure monitor. This whole thing is just killing me, because I've wanted a 911 my whole life. I even used to just go test drive them on days off during residency to remind myself of the good things that lay ahead...all for this rattletrap thing that leaves me pissed off when I exit?

thanks for letting me vent. man I hope I can get this fixed.

It's a bummer when you pay so much for a car and then aren't totally happy with it.
Stuff like this happens from time to time with any car maker - you could have just as bad luck with the M3.
Porsche are generally well built and it's not the norm.

Give dealer a chance to fix it. I realize you are upset right now, and rightfully so, but trading the car in so quickly would probably cost more then you'd like.

If you are not happy with the dealer is there another one in the area? It's ridiculous they give you crap if you just bought the car from them.

Sorry to hear of your issues. I think your experience is the exception, not the rule. I'm on my second 997, and my current one is a 07 Targa, which many assume is the worst model for rattles and squeaks. Yet, I haven't experienced any problems at all. The car is my daily driver (only car), and it is still quiet and solid feeling with over 17k miles. Nothing has broken or fallen off, no buzzing of speakers, no rattles or squeaks. Once in a while I wipe down the weatherstripping at front and rear edges of my Targa top to eliminate any periodic squeaks. My 05 C2S cab had almost 25k miles on it when I sold it in mid 07, and it didn't have any rattles or squeaks either.

I'm not sure what whine you're referring to, but I love the Porsche gear whine in lower gears when cruising slowly through a parking lot.

I suggest you persist with the dealer in having them keep looking for those sources of noises and deal with them properly so you can enjoy your car the way it is meant to be enjoyed.

Good luck.

Give them a chance to make it right.
I'm on my 3rd P-car, and they all had a niggling rattle in different spots. They all were fixed.
The hardest ones are the type caused by the cold. Dash rattles and squeeks caused by the parts moving when contracted and cold, and go away once the cabin warms. Never does it at the dealer cause it's all warmed up by then.

You'll get it sorted out.
Every BMW I've had, ended up with major problems. My E46M3 had rod bearing recall, M Roadster had the rear end practically rip off the the subframe, and the Z8 had the threat of mushrooming the aluminum strut towers and spreading them away from the hood.... without a fix at that time. I'll never, ever own another Bimmer.

Aside from a bad fuel pump, the Porsches are rock solid.
You're just having a little buyers remorse too.... it's natural.

There will be some rattles. To make it rattle-free would imply a heavier car a la BMW. If that's important to you get a BMW. For me I do not want the extra mass and understand and accept the tradeoff. Evidently you do not.

A few Porsches ago I felt as you do . Now I have grown fond of the rattles . I don't even want to remove them . My 07997tt and 09 Pdk have the famous passenger seat rattle . It took 300 miles in my PDK car and I was hoping to hear it before it got to 1000 miles and was not let down.
Deep breaths . If you bond with this new car .. it will leave a positive impact .
It's a dream car .. it's memories in the making .. rattles and all.

I appreciate the replies. That sunroof/rear deck sound very well could be the passenger seat. Have you had the passenger seat rattle with someone in it? My (wonderful, sweet, pregnant) wife was actually the first person to point out the rattles to me...bit of a spoiler but I'll forgive her.

I'll take it in monday and hopefully something can be done. Otherwise I'll just have to decide. I actually agree somewhat with the comment about the m3, even if it sounded a bit snide - the one drive I've had in one, which admittedly was a vert, felt like a big car.

How many of you daily drive your 911?

Is the wind whistle at 60-70 normal?

My 09 is tight as a drum. No rattles or squeaks of any kind. Sometimes new cars can creak or make some noises when new and after awhile when everything has a chance to flex and move some they go away, but not always. This is my 4th Porsche and all of them have been great!

On the subject of Bmw's being better built than Porsche.. I disagree!
I have owned 2 BMW's in the last few years and IMHO they are the worst POS's I have ever owned. Constant problems with both cars. Rattles, squeaks, engine, a/c, and trim problems to name a few. I will never buy another one.

Your car is a lemon! Mine does not have rattles or squeaks! Did you test drive the car you bought???

go to your dealer and tell them work on those rattles - they actually can fix most of them.

utkinoli s right..go get them fixed.

my 05 911 is the quietest car I have every owned....no one rattle or squeak with 37K miles on it and several track days. It was one of the reasons I wanted the engine replaced instead of the dealer buying it back when I had the IMS issue. I just love how solid it feels.

my boxster has developed one squeak when I hit a bump which is a little annoying and i will have checked out soon. I think its a shock and have read about it on other forums.

You should not have to put up with what you describe.

Good luck

I agree with you. I owned 2, Z4's and they were just built terrible. Talk about loose side shirts and the like. And rattles and squeaks.
Forgetabloutit.

My E46 and 5 series were built well. But I think the quality has dropped on the E90 series.

If you have driven many 911's and did not experience these kinds of issues on the test drives, then maybe it's just your car. In any event, it's worth giving a dealership a shot at fixing them. However, with the suspension as tight as it is, it's only a matter of time until new ones develop.
If you do end up looking to make a change, take a look at the 5's before you settle for an M3. While the M3 feels competent if somewhat sterile, the 5, to me, feels like a huge step up. Sounds to me like you're looking for the automotive equivalent of "the mama, the good wife, and the hooker." The 535i sport manual and 550i sport manual are really nice cars, while the M5 (or 6) is a beast, and I think any of these cars might satisfy your expectations better than either the 911 (hooker only!) or the M3.
Good luck.

hilarious Yeah, but a high class hooker.

High class for sure. I'm quite happy with her.

Let me give you my 2 cents worth.

I own an '08 M3 and am actively pursuing an '98 993C4S. Yesterday, just to convince myself I'm not about to make a $68,000 mistake buying a 12 year old car, I drove to my local dealer in my M3 and test drove a new 997S.

The car drove nicely, but buzzed and rattled everywhere. WTF? For a car with a $112,000 sticker (YIKES!!!), the inside just was not up to par. It did not strike me as being overly fast (remember, the M3 has 420hp) or as handling that much better (the M3 suspension is sublime and unflappable) than my car. The porsche did shift better than the bimmer (6m vs 6M) as my M3 1-2 shift remains a bit stiff (my ONLY minor quibble with the car). Steering was a wash.

My M3 with about 12k miles on it felt much more solidly built. It is also a much smoother car. What struck me was how far out of control Porsche has gotten with sticker prices. It is a very emotional car... looks nice, drives nice, gets lots of attention...but 112 grand??? Come on.

On the other hand, the 993's I've been driving are as solid as tanks... even cars that are worn with 150 thousand miles... not a rattle. The doors close like a bank vault. The cars that are perfect and have very low miles are pricey, but after driving a new 911, appear to be a bargain. They also look so much nicer.

Go drive the new M3. At 72 thousand it is a relative bargain, and you will pay ZERO to maintain it for the first 50 thousand miles (including brakes and wipers). With the 40K you save, go find yourself a nicely kept air cooled 993 to love and dote over. Both the M3 and the 993 combined will rattle far less than your current 997.

Sorry guys.

Wow...interesting stuff.

Very difference from so many posts you see where many the new 997.2 owner writes when comparing it to a 997.1 that its....

"so much faster"... "much, much better"....etc.

I have test driven two 997.2; i don't think for a second there is anything wrong with the interiors.. And I really don't recall any bad rattles...but with the dealer talking who knows.

I did think the 997.2 felt a little ( and I mean lttile) less connected to the road.

I have not driven a new M3...I can't get over the ugly exterior. I have driven the older M3 (E46?) and I don't think they are smoother at all.

Just different strokes...

I would start by speaking to the Service Manager, and if I could not get the issue resolved, escalate it to the General Manager, and if necessary - send a letter to the head of PCNA. Hopefully you will not have to go beyond step 1!

These cars are worth the trouble and so I wouldn't give up without making a considerable effort to have them make it right for you.

As for my experience, I just came back from a 5 1/2 hour morning 'spin' in my '08 C4S. Would you get up at 4:30 a.m. to go out in an M3?

Best of luck, and keep us posted on the result.

A lot of the rattles are due to cheap plastics. Not light, but cheap. It does bother me. The reason the E93 M3 is heavier than my porsche is because 1) it is bigger. A lot bigger.(a foot or two in the wheelbase, where the weight adds quickly) 2) it has actual sound insulation 3) it has speakers for the stereo. 4) it has stupid things like that robot arm that hands you a seat belt. 5) it has coins holders, storage bins, and adaptive headlights.
Well, there is the 300 lbs difference in weight right there.
The plastics in the 997 are just hard, cheap and flimsy. Porsche has bragged for years that they had the highest profit margin in the business. That sort of arrogance looks bad today, now that the CEO is working at Denny's.
I knew about this before I bought the car. Consumer reports has reported that the 997 is a rattle trap and many forum mention it. Your dealer will help you here and get rid of a number of the rattles. Give it a try and see what happens first.
BUT, give the car a chance for chrissakes! The posters who mention that you will look for excuses to drive the car are correct. I look for roads to drive on and test out the car and feel the dynamic differences between this chassis and "normal" cars. Porsche spent a lot of time perfecting the controls. The brakes, steering and shifter are sublime. The chassis is very special. Maybe not "perfect" like the cayman or M3, but it does some cool and interesting things when you push it. Setting the car up perfectly in a corner is like the perfect golf swing...get it just right and it is very rewarding. Do it like a ham-fist and well.......

Final note-It is silly to believe that they invested in the chassis and could not afford a good interior. Rather, they just pocketed the extra cash that they could have spent on the interior and overall material quality. I predict that it will haunt porsche if they don't squash this problem soon...

Quite interesting observation as I drive Lexus which is totally silent, then my 997 06 which has one single little buzz coming sometimes somewhere from left door, so I drove 3-4 weeks ago new 09 PDK just out of curiosity and if was completely silent. No rattles, no resonance, I can hear tires, engine, suspension, but nothing was banging or rattling inside.

My friend`s 1 year old leased 328 (i think) bmw squicks and rattles at every bump and has much more cheap plastic inside (some of it was falling apart already) than 997.2, bmw design is not nearly as stylish and plain as in 997 Porsche. 997 reminds me of aircraft ****pit - very functional and nothing extra, a perfection as it is.

I am not saying you are trolling here but your observation is completely not on par with mine.

Again, if anyone is obsessed about tire/suspension/engine noise and wants totally quiet car - get GS or LS Lexus. :)

PS funny as hell - it ***ed out C_O_C_K_P_I_T. Amazing how this stupid hypocrisy makes its way in automatic fashion...

IMHO - trolling.

I assume your not saying I'm trolling and you are referring to the post I responded too.

naturally.

PS. your original message made its way over email - you`re way too emotional, dude. :) calm down, it`s just a forum.

Not emotional...just didn't see the whole thread and when I saw troll I was like...WTF...what did I do now...I was defending the 997.2!

my bad.

that`s OK. hilarious

on a serious note - I do not dislike 3 series BMW but all but one I saw and know about according to people I know have some issues with interior, noises, cracks, issues of different sorts, so I do not know if M3 has completely different interior or not but I just extrapolated there. From what I saw in M3 myself I did not see much different compared to regular 3 series BMW but who knows, I`m not an expert in new bimers.

I would not touch a new 3 series platform bimmer. Not only lots of plastic and dull interiors but even in terms of performance with fuel pump issues among others.

With 24 years worth of 7 BMWs, I never had problems with the cars and I would have gotten another one. Except they just don't make a 911 type car - in that their current cars don't feel as connected to driving as a 911 (not really the ultimate driving machine they claim to be and once seemed to be). And they are just not beautiful to look at - more strange looking and awkward, like a teenager just hitting puberty. But I think they are well built , nice driving cars.

I find my 911 to be very solid though and I wonder that it doesn't have rattles as it transmits every nook and cranny of a bump in the road into the car. It won't surprise me if it gets some.

I subscribe to Consumer Reports. The 911 is rated 96 out of 100 with an 88% customer would by again rating. In fact it was my spelunking through Consumer Reports that got me onto my 911. I got so turned off by the "new coke" 996 design that I had put it out of my mind - CR put it back on my list and one week later, I was driving away with a 997.2. No where in the CR articles or reviews is the car described as a "rattle trap" or anything like that.

Not as plush as a BMW and not as mush as a Lexus, but I don't think that was ever the point with this car. I taped a show that someone pointed out, Voyages: History of the 911, on the Int. History channel. Well worth watching to see where our cars come from philosophically. After watching I am thankful to even have AC and a stereo. :D

Nice to hear that the 993's are that solid. I like that 993/M3 combo idea - definitely could make sense for some.

Thank you all for your input - I really appreciate it. I just got home from work and am going to go check out an M3 here in half an hour or so.

I'm definitely not obsessed with absolute quiet - for the most part, I think I knew what I was getting. I just don't want it to rattle quite SO much, and the mirror control knob popping off in my hand as I was driving down the road thinking "geez this thing rattles a lot for an 80K car..." did not help.

However, I do find myself taking the long way home more often than not and a lot of the time will just take a "lap" or two around the curvy roads near our house prior to actually going home. The actual driving part itself is terrific and I love it. I mean, I just skipped my exit on the way home so I could drive the curves and long off/on ramps on the next exit. Great fun. If they can just fix a few buzzes and damper the significant rattles I'll be happy. I bought this thing with the intention of driving it for a long time. I just don't want to be driven nuts (or more nuts).

Great forum, really appreciate all of the input and opinion.

Steve, check under the "reliability" box in CR. Under "Rattles", The black dot=rattle trap. I consider the info reliable, since the car has awesome owner satisfaction and the car got a great rating. Seems like they don't have a "bone to pick" with porsche. If you also look at the 996, the car had much less rattles. They also noted in the review all of the bad gaps on the interior...presumably to fit the leather clearances. Porsche was just too cheap to mold different parts if you didn't spring for the leather option! At least it helps me see all of the screws inside my dash (make sure none of them suckers is missing!:))

Oh yes, but that was '06 (black) and '07 (not quite black), so getting better is the trend ;). Hoping by now it is back up to 996 standards. :D

I've had several Porsches, 986, 987, now 997.2. Wife has an 08 Boxster S. Occasional rattle or buzz, but not a rattle trap by any means. For my part nothing within my financial reach drives as well as a Porsche, but that's me and not you. Obviously the way the car drives and entertains you behind the wheel does not delight you sufficiently to justify the price or prevent you from focusing on the rattles. When that's the case it's time to cut your losses and find something else. Good luck!

Well, I suppose I'm hooked. The M3 is really nice, quiet, rides better, has a better stereo, is fast and handles pretty well. However, I knew within about 20 seconds that I wasn't trading my car out for the M3. I just need to get these rattles fixed and a single piece mirror control knob, taking it in monday.
Thing just accelerates, brakes, and handles too well, something intangibly great in the way it all goes together.

thanks again for all of the advice and opinion. I'll keep you posted with what happens at the dealer (I'm sure you are all losing sleep over it...)

Why didn't you drive the M3 and get your ducks aligned before starting this thread? :) The 911 is a solid chassis, but it will never be a vault - it is a sports car.

My passenger seat buckle was banging against the seat. I had to adjust the buckle height and it no longer rattles. This was the only rattle in my 08C2S MT at 10500 miles.

to gary 911, hilarious, in regards to his car being a lemon.....lol
to jjbravo, your speaks a million word.... :-) enjoy your porsche

[quote=kungfufishing;2565663]However, I knew within about 20 seconds that I wasn't trading my car out for the M3. I just need to get these rattles fixed and a single piece mirror control knob, taking it in monday.
Thing just accelerates, brakes, and handles too well, something intangibly great in the way it all goes together.
quote]


Yes, had the same conclusion! Either turn up the Bose or get ear plugs. You really need both cars in the garage, that way you can bounce back and forth depending on your mood! :D