Carrera and Carrera S major difference
#16
10-06-2009, 08:41 PM
No doubt they all made an improvement, and maybe the dyno's are right, it's just that a gain approaching 40hp or so seems maybe a little high for the mods you've made?
Last edited by swajames; 10-06-2009 at 08:47 PM.
#18
10-06-2009, 08:46 PM
Well, just get your car on a dyno and tell us your story.
I am also reasonably skeptical but, well, as I used same dyno on similar weather conditions on same car with same setup and all pulls did show somewhat in same ballpark - I guess it has to have some relevance to reality whatever that reality is.
I was doing it not for anybody here on this forum, just for myself, so, those numbers are as real as any other numbers. I specifically wanted to see difference between old and new, even if we consider numbers by itself are meaningless, what matters is that shift between what it was and what it is now.
For what it`s worth - it is just a sample of what this list of mods like mine looks like on a dyno chart. To be wrong or right - it is quite difficult as all you can do is to put your setup into dyno - it was done back then and reused now for new pull. If it would be a different dyno I would say - yes, it is possible, but, heck, it`s same shop, almost same outside temperature and humidity, same fans around a car, same gas in a tank - what else can be done?
I am also reasonably skeptical but, well, as I used same dyno on similar weather conditions on same car with same setup and all pulls did show somewhat in same ballpark - I guess it has to have some relevance to reality whatever that reality is.
I was doing it not for anybody here on this forum, just for myself, so, those numbers are as real as any other numbers. I specifically wanted to see difference between old and new, even if we consider numbers by itself are meaningless, what matters is that shift between what it was and what it is now.
For what it`s worth - it is just a sample of what this list of mods like mine looks like on a dyno chart. To be wrong or right - it is quite difficult as all you can do is to put your setup into dyno - it was done back then and reused now for new pull. If it would be a different dyno I would say - yes, it is possible, but, heck, it`s same shop, almost same outside temperature and humidity, same fans around a car, same gas in a tank - what else can be done?
So you know, I never dyno'd my car stock, so all I'd be able to produce would be today's status, though I am curious what it would say. Would seeing a 370 or 390 or 405 number make me taller or more handsome
Or would it make me faster in any meaningful way? Would I be happier or love my car more? Nope. As far as I am concerned, I love how my car drives with each mod, and as Ed said, I know which mods I'd do again, and which I'd save my money on. Ask me and I'll tell you.I think, actually, I'd prefer to take my car, same day, to a few dynos and post the variability. Even on same brand dynos, I bet I'd see +/-30 hp variance. However, look into dyno's, and you'll find that there are too many variables upon which to perform any reliable regression analysis.
CATTMAN
#19
10-06-2009, 08:49 PM
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pretty same doubt may be expressed to absolutely anything including boosting stock 997 turbo into 700+ horses. I also can stand into 3rd position here and proclaim it is all total BS and baloney by its definition just because it simply cannot be, but it does not matter much, does it?
#20
10-06-2009, 08:55 PM
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Rep Power: 161 I think, actually, I'd prefer to take my car, same day, to a few dynos and post the variability. Even on same brand dynos, I bet I'd see +/-30 hp variance. However, look into dyno's, and you'll find that there are too many variables upon which to perform any reliable regression analysis.
CATTMAN
CATTMAN
Dyno I used actually does have good reputation. But, I do not insist.
Anyway, I am not after holy war here and frankly all I did care about was to fix my timing fluctuations. If I got 283 mustang horses now, or 289 - who cares. i am doing it just to show other owners of cars like mine that this minor stuff like 200 cell cats, clear filter, new oil, new spark plugs etc - does make some difference after all.
#21
10-06-2009, 08:59 PM
Enjoy your car utinpol. I am not sure why peeps horns should be twisted here. Seems like an innocent case of putting your mouth where your money is Glad you like the car. A stock 997C does not give much away to a stock CS if the origional Euro roadtests are to be believed. Little sense in comparing modded cars to stock except at the dragstrip or racetrack imo. Good driving.
Glad you like the car. A stock 997C does not give much away to a stock CS if the origional Euro roadtests are to be believed. Little sense in comparing modded cars to stock except at the dragstrip or racetrack imo. Good driving.
#22
10-06-2009, 09:03 PM
200 cell cats will make a difference. Mufflers will add the perception of being faster, based on the car sounding faster, but will probably help more by the weight reduction then the few HP that they really add.
#23
10-06-2009, 09:07 PM
I apologize if I gave the impression of wanting a holy war, or locking horns, neither were my intent. I hope I have been respectful.
All I meant to do was to question dyno results in general, which is why I thought it would be interesting to take my car to multiple dyno's, as is, just to show how one to another varies, despite no changes to the vehicle.
Again, no intent to be anything other than intellectually curious and enjoy the debate- hope that's clear to you, friends.
CATTMAN
All I meant to do was to question dyno results in general, which is why I thought it would be interesting to take my car to multiple dyno's, as is, just to show how one to another varies, despite no changes to the vehicle.
Again, no intent to be anything other than intellectually curious and enjoy the debate- hope that's clear to you, friends.
CATTMAN
#24
10-06-2009, 09:19 PM
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Rep Power: 39 Dude you arent going to make up 30hp with those mods..at best 10hp. Cat backs are worth nothing on these cars and dont even get started on the plenum. Not to mention the car is a tip...
AWE showed only 11rwhp increase with a full exhaust on a 997 non S, and this includes headers, cats and catback.
Also the brakes are larger on the S vs. the non S. 13" for the S and 12.5 for the non S for the front, and 13" for the S and 11.77" for the rear on the non S.
Dave
AWE showed only 11rwhp increase with a full exhaust on a 997 non S, and this includes headers, cats and catback.
Also the brakes are larger on the S vs. the non S. 13" for the S and 12.5 for the non S for the front, and 13" for the S and 11.77" for the rear on the non S.
Dave
Sheeeeshthe straight away is up by big bear, I had to stop and take a picture like that, it Ended up looking really cool, glad you noticed it ...
+1 europeankar that C2 looks BAD A$$, I love it, ENJOY
Last edited by PersianGodFatha; 10-06-2009 at 09:31 PM.
#25
10-06-2009, 09:30 PM
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Rep Power: 106 You're right your bad...don't let it happen again or 30 lashes with a wet noodle and 30 hrs of listening to "Ice, Ice baby".
Don't mean to come across as a smart ***...
Dave
#26
10-06-2009, 09:32 PM
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Rep Power: 106 it`s ok, i posted that stuff just as a response to mindless comment about '10hp top' that can be achieved from tuning 3.6L engine.
pretty same doubt may be expressed to absolutely anything including boosting stock 997 turbo into 700+ horses. I also can stand into 3rd position here and proclaim it is all total BS and baloney by its definition just because it simply cannot be, but it does not matter much, does it?
pretty same doubt may be expressed to absolutely anything including boosting stock 997 turbo into 700+ horses. I also can stand into 3rd position here and proclaim it is all total BS and baloney by its definition just because it simply cannot be, but it does not matter much, does it?
Its my opinion don't agree with it..fine. To call it mindless..you are just arrogant..I'll leave it at that.
I normally don't want to respond to your posts anyways anymore...you always come across as combative and you just reinforced that idea in my eyes.
Dave
Last edited by Dave07997S; 10-06-2009 at 09:35 PM.
#27
10-07-2009, 06:01 AM
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Rep Power: 161 I apologize if I gave the impression of wanting a holy war, or locking horns, neither were my intent. I hope I have been respectful.
All I meant to do was to question dyno results in general, which is why I thought it would be interesting to take my car to multiple dyno's, as is, just to show how one to another varies, despite no changes to the vehicle.
Again, no intent to be anything other than intellectually curious and enjoy the debate- hope that's clear to you, friends.
CATTMAN
All I meant to do was to question dyno results in general, which is why I thought it would be interesting to take my car to multiple dyno's, as is, just to show how one to another varies, despite no changes to the vehicle.
Again, no intent to be anything other than intellectually curious and enjoy the debate- hope that's clear to you, friends.
CATTMAN
Multiple dynos idea is quite relevant for establishing a denominator if point is to compare different cars results, again, it wasn`t my goal here. I assume if you do 3 pulls and curves on all of them are practically identical - it is most likely a sign that dyno works correctly, plus, this that ESP shop in Sterling, MA is pretty well known and that dyno runs pretty much non-stop.
I like t work with numbers, and if there is better way to get accurate numbers may be I`ll use it as well, but I am not sure what there is other way to get those dyno graphs for AFR, timing and power at once, so, for what it`s worth...
#28
10-07-2009, 06:09 AM
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You started your post with disrespectful 'Dude' and then put a baseless proclamation next to that. I then present actual documented proof of my tuning efforts that as you claimed - cannot exist ,so, you have a nerve now to call it 'arrogant' ?
Whatever, 'dude'.
#29
10-07-2009, 06:15 AM
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Rep Power: 161 I pretty much share the idea that any claim on any particular item 'it adds up to 30 horses' like on your dreaded plenum
makes no sense by much. Nevertheless when you combine all that stuff together and re-tune entire system it is quite normal to expect different results.
#30
10-07-2009, 07:03 AM
Any little change can make its little difference, question is - what exact change and by what margin.
I pretty much share the idea that any claim on any particular item 'it adds up to 30 horses' like on your dreaded plenum makes no sense by much.
Nevertheless when you combine all that stuff together and re-tune entire system it is quite normal to expect different results.
I pretty much share the idea that any claim on any particular item 'it adds up to 30 horses' like on your dreaded plenum
makes no sense by much. Nevertheless when you combine all that stuff together and re-tune entire system it is quite normal to expect different results.
I only have the OEM plenum in my car. As for other things, you won't get 30hp from a aftermarket plenum, flash, and set of mufflers. If the Dyno results showed that, then I think that something has changed, it could be temperature, barometric pressure, amount of tension on the tie down straps. There are too many variables to use it to calculate small changes, and if used then perhaps one shouldn't trust the results to 100% accurate. It is a measuring tool, and measuring tools aren't always accurate due to the variables. I guess this is why people say measure twice cut once.