Do you double clutch?
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I'd love to learn how to heal and toe, but it just seems like an impossible thing to me! Ticks me off actually, I really wanna get the hang of it but I seem to be impatient.
Anyway, I do love to do B) as you described to revmatch and downshift. It's especially gratifying when you have the sport button enabled and you do it just right. The sound, the speed, the feedback. Really makes u feel good. Manual for life !
Anyway, I do love to do B) as you described to revmatch and downshift. It's especially gratifying when you have the sport button enabled and you do it just right. The sound, the speed, the feedback. Really makes u feel good. Manual for life !
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The purpose of rev matching is to prevent an abrupt downshift from upsetting the rear of the car in a turn, disrupting traction at the rear. This is especially true w a rear engine car. Downshift before entering the turn and you can prevent most problems here. I find it (matching revs/blipping) difficult to do successfully 100% of the time with the standard, non sport, setting; partly lack of practice and partly a throttle response issue. At this point I feel that the missed rev matches (early or late engagement) cause more clutch/syncro wear then the normal process of downshifting so generally don't bother. One exception is the 3-2 downshift at speed which as has been pointed out creates a large rpm increase. Under those conditions I try to do as Walter does (lol). Downshifting and braking before entering the turn in your porsche is good/mandatory practice and is probably more important than the blip. Btw, if you are going to rev match, driving shoes or the like are a must. Those great old sneaks won't cut it. Too little feel.
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Just remember that the concept of "heel and toe" came from the days then accelerators were configured differently. Now it's "left toe, right toe" rolling across the ***** of the foot.
It's not hard. Good for the car. Start slow....get the succession of movements right. After a while, it will become second nature and you'll do it quickly without thinking about it.
At some level, the more you initially understand what it is you're accomplishing by putting the transmission in neutral, letting out the clutch so the engine will spin the transmission parts, rev matching (or just slightly higher) so the transmission internals will tend to match the rpms it will use in the lower gear, then putting in the clutch, shifting to the lower gear and letting out the clutch -- the easier it will become.
All you're doing is speeding up the transmission parts so that when you shift into a lower gear, the transmission is tending to spin at a similar speed to what you will use in the lower gear. This reduces stress and wear. (It also encourages the il-informed to ask if you're showing off.)
(Those who shift into neutral, leave the clutch in, rev the engine, then shift to the lower gear are just increasing wear.)
A proper double-clutch is, at some level, a secret handshake among experienced drivers.
It's not hard. Good for the car. Start slow....get the succession of movements right. After a while, it will become second nature and you'll do it quickly without thinking about it.
At some level, the more you initially understand what it is you're accomplishing by putting the transmission in neutral, letting out the clutch so the engine will spin the transmission parts, rev matching (or just slightly higher) so the transmission internals will tend to match the rpms it will use in the lower gear, then putting in the clutch, shifting to the lower gear and letting out the clutch -- the easier it will become.
All you're doing is speeding up the transmission parts so that when you shift into a lower gear, the transmission is tending to spin at a similar speed to what you will use in the lower gear. This reduces stress and wear. (It also encourages the il-informed to ask if you're showing off.)
(Those who shift into neutral, leave the clutch in, rev the engine, then shift to the lower gear are just increasing wear.)
A proper double-clutch is, at some level, a secret handshake among experienced drivers.
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 3,335
From: Rye, NY
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Just remember that the concept of "heel and toe" came from the days then accelerators were configured differently. Now it's "left toe, right toe" rolling across the ***** of the foot.
It's not hard. Good for the car. Start slow....get the succession of movements right. After a while, it will become second nature and you'll do it quickly without thinking about it.
At some level, the more you initially understand what it is you're accomplishing by putting the transmission in neutral, letting out the clutch so the engine will spin the transmission parts, rev matching (or just slightly higher) so the transmission internals will tend to match the rpms it will use in the lower gear, then putting in the clutch, shifting to the lower gear and letting out the clutch -- the easier it will become.
All you're doing is speeding up the transmission parts so that when you shift into a lower gear, the transmission is tending to spin at a similar speed to what you will use in the lower gear. This reduces stress and wear. (It also encourages the il-informed to ask if you're showing off.)
(Those who shift into neutral, leave the clutch in, rev the engine, then shift to the lower gear are just increasing wear.)
A proper double-clutch is, at some level, a secret handshake among experienced drivers.
It's not hard. Good for the car. Start slow....get the succession of movements right. After a while, it will become second nature and you'll do it quickly without thinking about it.
At some level, the more you initially understand what it is you're accomplishing by putting the transmission in neutral, letting out the clutch so the engine will spin the transmission parts, rev matching (or just slightly higher) so the transmission internals will tend to match the rpms it will use in the lower gear, then putting in the clutch, shifting to the lower gear and letting out the clutch -- the easier it will become.
All you're doing is speeding up the transmission parts so that when you shift into a lower gear, the transmission is tending to spin at a similar speed to what you will use in the lower gear. This reduces stress and wear. (It also encourages the il-informed to ask if you're showing off.)
(Those who shift into neutral, leave the clutch in, rev the engine, then shift to the lower gear are just increasing wear.)
A proper double-clutch is, at some level, a secret handshake among experienced drivers.
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Since this thread started I've been taking an increased interest in how often I actually do double-clutch and heel-toe (or actually "roll" as some have pointed out cause that's what I've always done).
The reality is I do one or the other pretty much every time I change down. More frequently it's a simple blip on the throttle but quite often it's a full double clutch. That's just how I drive a manual by habit.
Quite intriguing at a personal level I must say. I'd never have thought that was the case without the question being asked so thanks!
The reality is I do one or the other pretty much every time I change down. More frequently it's a simple blip on the throttle but quite often it's a full double clutch. That's just how I drive a manual by habit.
Quite intriguing at a personal level I must say. I'd never have thought that was the case without the question being asked so thanks!
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B is the double clutch option and I heel to toe. The only time I had to double clutch, was when I drove an early 80's dump truck. No need to ever do that w/ these cars or any car for that matter, for the past many many years. I never even heard of double clutching a car only trucks!
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Hardest problem I've found is maintaining consistent brake pressure on a heel and toe double clutch. Only a bit easier if you are standing on the brakes. Most of the rush for me in owning a 6 spd. is the double clutch downshift with the sport button on and hearing the roar of the motor and the feel of a perfectly smooth release as you literally drop the clutch into the lower gear. Nothing beats it. No wear on the clutch, no wear on the syncros and less wear on the brakes.
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For easy downshifts I simply blip the throttle. For more extreme downshifts ( ending up at >5000rpms in the lower gear ) I double clutch.
Many years ago, driving a dump truck for a summer job, I had to double clutch for upshifts (it was piece of junk!)
Many years ago, driving a dump truck for a summer job, I had to double clutch for upshifts (it was piece of junk!)
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Well said...
As long as the transmission has synchros (and all recent automotive transmissions do), it isn't necessary to double clutch.
That said, every time you down shift and don't double clutch, you are putting wear on the synchros---and also putting the particles of the worn synchros into the transmission fluid -- which wears out the bearings, etc.
This just translates to money you will spend on repairs.
Under normal circumstances, I always double clutch.
However:
1. Don't use your clutch to slow the car. That is, as you slow, just use the engine vacuum and brakes until you get to the speed you want, then downshift. (or just go to neutral as you reach a stop) Down shifting through each gear (double clutching or not) may be entertaining, but puts a lot of wear on an expensive piece of equipment. Don't lug the engine. But if you are slowing to a stop and put the clutch in by the time the engine reaches 1,500 rpm or so -- that's not lugging.
2. There are times when it really isn't necessary to double clutch. Suppose you've been driving on a city street at 35mph in 3rd, the traffic slows and now you're going 20 mph or so. There's not a lot of engine rpm difference -- so double clutching at slow engine speeds (where the engine won't change much from gear to gear) is unnecessary.
Don't use racing techniques as your model for street driving. Race drivers may do things to their cars to gain a tenth of a second that you'd never want to do to your car, but they plan on rebuilding the transmission regularly.
That said, every time you down shift and don't double clutch, you are putting wear on the synchros---and also putting the particles of the worn synchros into the transmission fluid -- which wears out the bearings, etc.
This just translates to money you will spend on repairs.
Under normal circumstances, I always double clutch.
However:
1. Don't use your clutch to slow the car. That is, as you slow, just use the engine vacuum and brakes until you get to the speed you want, then downshift. (or just go to neutral as you reach a stop) Down shifting through each gear (double clutching or not) may be entertaining, but puts a lot of wear on an expensive piece of equipment. Don't lug the engine. But if you are slowing to a stop and put the clutch in by the time the engine reaches 1,500 rpm or so -- that's not lugging.
2. There are times when it really isn't necessary to double clutch. Suppose you've been driving on a city street at 35mph in 3rd, the traffic slows and now you're going 20 mph or so. There's not a lot of engine rpm difference -- so double clutching at slow engine speeds (where the engine won't change much from gear to gear) is unnecessary.
Don't use racing techniques as your model for street driving. Race drivers may do things to their cars to gain a tenth of a second that you'd never want to do to your car, but they plan on rebuilding the transmission regularly.
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