I thnk BMW needs to be careful and get back to their roots. They cannot be Porsche and if they try to be MB, they will get killed there too. They need to get back to being good at being BMW.

 

+1

BMW should prioritize performance in the use and application of new technologies. They seem to use new tech to merely preserve current levels of performance while increasing the comfort envelope. As for trying to be MB, I think MB has taken a hit trying to be BMW. The latest E class might as well be the E60's step brother.

Back to BM. Canceling the relatively highly successful F1 program doesn't make a great statement to the enthusiast crowd, which should be the core customer.

BMW needs an A5 sized sports car and a premium sports car. The 6 is anything but a sports car and the Z4 doesn't have a broad appeal. And its like BMW is afraid to offer the clubsport versions of certain models. Give us real Msports not dumbed down for our market. Maybe the problem with BMW is BMWNA's feedback. In all honesty, the last group of people BMW AG should be listening to for engineering feedback is americans. Right?

DRP

 

Another +1

I had two BMWs in the past (sadly, neither an M), and they were good cars, but certainly didn't hold the spirit of a Porsche. If you think about it, the 3- and 5-Series are the everyday vehicles for the Europeans, much like the MB C- and E-Class. Just think of all of the 5-series and E-Classes that you've seen pictures of with a taxi sign on top of them.

Not a dig on those brands, just putting things in perspective. I've owned BMW, MB, Audi and Porsche and will always prefer them over Caddy, Lexus or any other 'luxury' brand.

As advanced as the M3 is, if BMW truly wanted to deliver a competitor to the 911, then they should create a purpose-built vehicle, not a highly-modifed 3-series. The Z3/Z4s of the past did a decent job of competing against the Boxster, but weren't truly competitors from a sporting perspective.

So, yes...maybe an M3 is more comfortable than a 911 for a long drive...but most of us probably don't make many of these long drives, and prefer to have that S***-eating grin on our face everytime we start up our Porsche for those sporting drives we all enjoy.

 

To clarify, M cars have never been equipped with run-flat tires; only the non-M BMWs come with them. M cars don't have a spare either - they provide you with a tire patch kit.

 

Maybe he did the trip with 4 people in the car? That would get a little uncomfortable and stressful, with those little rear jump seats filled with adults!

Seriously, I drove my '05 S Cab from San Diego to Jackson Hole one weekend this past June, 1000 miles in total, and have never had so much fun on a long drive. The car was super comfortable, the trip was anything but stressful, and I was thrilled to be making that trip in a newer 911.

 

You have to realize that many 911 owners are old, and not necessarily in calendar years but in mental years. Heck, in calendar years I'm probably older than most of these guys (hint: I was in my teens when the 911 was created) and I drive 800 miles in a single stint in a 911 and feel fresh at the end of the day, actually fresher than when driving a wobbly/cushy sedan. But what do I know? We have to realize that this is the Lexus generation, who only drives a 911 for its image and cachet, and is easily indisposed by its driving dynamics.

I drove my 996 C4 several times non-stop between the Bay Area and San Diego, SF to Salt Lake (what a trip!), SF to Tucson (in a single stint). Tiring? Heck, no! I look forward to do the same in my new '10 CS (with its PASM will be even cushier, unless I switch Sport on and then enjoy it even more).

 

Heck, funny comment. For the 250 miles I wouldn't pick my 911 necessarily. If I was a bigwig at BMW M, I certainly wouldn't grab the M3. I'd pick one of the big autobahn bombers like the M5 or M6. If I needed to do some hauling, the X6M. Over 500 hp smokes the 911 over 100 mph and you spend plenty of time above that speed on the autobahn. HP is king over 100 when the road is straight. I took a test drive in the X6M. 550 hp. That thing was insane. Such a tank, but it had no body roll whatsoever and absolutely huge tires for incredible grip. On a short onramp road we were going over 100. A BMW test driver was showing me the potential. Certainly not something I would buy, but an amazing car nonetheless.

 

OK... I'll weigh in here. I like to think I will speak with some tiny bit of knowledge here owning both an M5 and a 997 C2S Cab...

They are obviously different cars, each very very capable in their own right. I love owning both and feel I am spoiled for being able to do so, as each heightens the differences and enjoyment of driving the other! The 997 is all sports car. The M5 is one of the greatest sports sedans ever.

Is anybody copying anybody? The car companies are chasing market share and consumer demand, so if consumers demand "XYZ" the car companies will naturally gravitate to "XYZ". For example the Cayenne and X5 chased the sport-uility market. Were they copying Toyota (arguably initiating the class with the 4Runner)? I don't think anyone is trying to be anyone else.

And to a previous post about BMW using technology to maintain performance. I'm not sure that is accurate. The current E60 M5 is a direct decendent of F1 technology with SMG (sequential manual gearbox)paddle shifting, V-10 engine performance and HUD. Oh yeah, it puts out 500 hp, or 25% (25%!) more hp than my lowley E39 M5. That sounds like technology resulting in a fairly significant improvement in performance.

Obviously the head of BMW will saywhat he needs to / is supposed to say. Lastly I would encourage you to consider what he said in a positive light for our Porsches: The fact that he is more relaxed after driving his M, suggests to me it requires less driver input and provides less feedback to the driver. Not exactly the experience I am looking for when I get behind the wheel of my Porsche!

 

German cars were typically very spartan in the "old days". The emphasis was engineering, performance, character, and enthusiasm for the marque. Electric windows, power steering and brakes, radios/antennas, and A/C were all optional equipment. The Germans marketed their cars as being more comfortable on long trips because the seats were engineered better and the information transmitted to the driver by the steering and suspension was more precise, and hence less fatiguing, than the luxo domestic competition. The definition of comfort has evolved over the decades where yesterdays options are today's standard equipment.

 

This is my first 911 and I'd have to agree that it's fatiguing on long trips of 150+ miles. I've also learned that it's a bit annoying for the first 5 minutes until it warms up. Now I understand why some people keep these cars in the garage for weekend driving vs daily driving. It's my daily driver but I'm seriously considering getting another daily driver for the short 10 minute drive to work.

 

If you feel that way... I'm sorry... why did you get a 911? Why are you suffering and depriving yourself of the comfort and cushy ride you desperately need? Not that the 911 is harsh AFAIC! Geez! This is a sports car... You are illustrating my point and sayboy's post recently - the current crowd driving sports cars is forcing the marques, due to their misplaced marketing pressure, to neuter these cars. Enough! You are making me lose my temper.

 

Are you serious? I'm sure you are, so you got the wrong car - it happens. Different strokes, but I make up excuses to drive my car - run errands for my wife that I would have loathed in my previous car (which for me was the wrong car, although a fine car for others I'm sure). A 10 minute ride doesn't begin to satisfy me. But I can see how these cars are not for everyone.

Don't feel like you should like it - it's a quirky odd car, bumpy and small, noisy and impractical. Why anyone would want one is beyond me.

You may grow into it, but I doubt it. For me, the 911 feel is something I imagined in my head and then found the car that did that. I suspect that is the normal path to a car like this.

Check this out: http://www.ifc.com/porsche/ - Seinfeld nails it for me.

 

The BMW guy is so completely wrong....

I drove 760 miles in one day in my 997S about 4 weeks ago - from Lyon in France to Manchester in England - a lot of it going err..... quite quickly! No major aches and pains to speak of and I was anything but tired and stressed when I arrived at my destination. To be honest, I couldn't stop grinning Long, fast drives in a 911 tend to have that effect on you. I think in an M3, I'd just have been bored.

 

This is funny to me. Any of these modern Porsches with maybe the exception of the GT2/3 have a pretty cush ride imo.

"Tired and stressed" Let me tell you a little story about a Porsche I had. In the early 90s I had an 84' 911 carrera targa. This particular 911 would fail to start after being driven for long periods of time and would have to rest a long period of time (15 to 20 hours) to gain its charge back. (It turned out to be a lose selonoid on the underside of the car) This car also had a very poor defroster that worked imtermittantly among a host of other minor niggles. Hey I was a relative kid at the time and it was a Porsche so to me it was worth it.

Anyway I had to visit a friend in Potsdam NY about a 5 hour ride from my home outside of NYC and had neither the time or the money right then to get the car properly diagnosed.

Well throwing a bit of prudence to the wind I said screw it and got in the car and went. By the time I get to the edge of Adirondack park it's late afternoon and I have an incessant urge to urinate. Now I had been very careful to hit the liter bottle of Diet Pepsi I had next to me very sparingly during my drive but nature was a calling. Luckily for me the roads were reasonably deserted and there was a little cul de sac turnoff positioned at the top of a hill that had some bushes for coverage.

Now you may be asking why I cared to stop at the top of a hill. See the thing with that car was is that I could always get it to a rolling start. I figured should for some reason the engine just stop when I was out of the car I could probably nudge the car to the incline and starter up again Flintstones style. Hey adirondack park was like in the middle of nowhere and cellphones weren't a thing back then.

After that brief respit I get back in the car engergized for the rest of the drive. And what a wonderful drive it was. Of course there was one big rig trucker who, when I passed him in the oncoming lane, sped up like he was racing me, that was a bit stressful but dropping into 4th gear that great flat 6 gave me all the urge I needed to get past him.

Anyway I'm at my last 30 miles to Potsdam and dusk is falling and despite the fact its summer its quite cold and my windshield is fogging up pretty bad. Not wanting to stop for the obvious reasons I make the rest of my way peering through a tiny port hole section of the windsheild that the defroster managed to clear up.

I happy to say I arrived safe and sound. I'm sure a lot of cars would've made the ride more comfy but honestly I wouldn't have traded that ride or the feel of being so connected to road for anything.

Hey if your into a comfy get a lexus or a real nice couch

BTW, the ride back home was even more fun but that's antoher story

 

maybe the truth of all this is that they took a sampling of a certain size person and determined the M3 seat fit them better than the 911. You guys all know the 911 isn't all that forgiving of big a$$es. I mean the seat of course!

I haven't driven the v8 M3, but the prev gen had a ride that would just beat the crap out of you it was so stiff. Personally, I had a blast driving it, but the 911 is in a different league for me. Somebody tried to compare the handling of the cars, and even pulled in a Lotus to compare against ... the Lotus was raw, it screamed, it rattled everywhere, it was tiny inside, the interior looked like crap (it was in great shape, just to me it was poorly designed) ... what can I say though, each car was a blast.

And at the end, the M3 ... well, it just seemed like a sedan, but a fun one.