911s Take a Long Time for their Engines to Warm Up
#16
10-28-2009, 11:54 PM
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My 05 997S owner's manual says to drive the car as soon as you start the engine and to NOT let the engine run idle in order to warm up the engine. Why is wrong with letting the engine run idle to warm up?
#17
10-29-2009, 12:02 AM
When starting the engine, be ready to drive immediately. Drive vehicle at moderate speeds and avoid engine speeds above 4200rpm during the first 5 minutes.
Do not let the engine idle to warm up.
#18
10-29-2009, 01:29 AM
I read that in the manual as well. I definitely don't rev over 3000 RPM until oil temp is over 200 degrees. It does take a long long time so when I start to daily drive it I might have to take some longer routes!
#19
10-29-2009, 05:51 AM
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Well, you read manual more carefully than I do. Nevertheless, at auto-x not a single soul starts running course on a cold engine, everybody start cars and let them warm up on idle.
#20
10-29-2009, 07:47 AM
Most manufacturers tell you not to idle the car to warm it up. They say to drive off immediately etc. etc. I would think this has more to do with emissions and fuel economy, not with causing any damage or problems to the engine.....
Although having said that, I have been storing engines for many years, and I never start them up during storage and let them idle. I would rather leave the engine in storage until it's time to take it out. My reasoning here is that idling and engine to warm it up takes much too long, and it probably causes more problems than just leaving the engine dormant.......
Although having said that, I have been storing engines for many years, and I never start them up during storage and let them idle. I would rather leave the engine in storage until it's time to take it out. My reasoning here is that idling and engine to warm it up takes much too long, and it probably causes more problems than just leaving the engine dormant.......
#21
10-29-2009, 08:18 AM
this is an interesting topic which i discussed a few times with my porsche buddues. First off, I wait about 10 secconds after starting the car to let the oil pump into the engine before driving off. I take it easy 2500-3000 first few minutes. once the oil temp comes to life a little (ticks up from lowest level), i let the engine rev more freely (up to 4500 or so) until fully warmed. Wont really let the engine to redline until fully warmed but once the oil temp ticks a little, the oil is not cold anymore and can be revved more freely.
#22
10-29-2009, 09:29 AM
The say not to idle because of emissions regulations. I know in Germany they are not allowed to idle for too long by law. I can’t remember exact numbers, but I think it’s under a minute. In some places in the US there are also similar laws, but you never hear about them because they are never enforced. Also Porsche puts that in the manual because they want you to warm up the whole car rather then just the engine. It wont hurt the car by doing otherwise. Back in the day before good fuel management engines used to load up with fuel, but that isn’t an issue with modern cars.
#23
10-29-2009, 01:22 PM
It's true that idling engines warm up slower than when pulling a load, but I still like to idle an engine a couple of minutes and then drive conservatively (below 3000RPM), until oil is up to temp.
#24
10-29-2009, 05:01 PM
#25
10-29-2009, 07:58 PM
A good warm up, yes. Driving below 3k RPM before the oil is at 200, that's over cautious. I never shift below 4k. I've heard more damage to the car from lugging the engine around. I keep it below 5k til the engine warms up. By an M3 - it has nice little idiot lights that tell you the "implied" redline until the car warms up! I agree with 19k too.
I also love that cold start burble! Must be fun with the PSE - I know those things really rattle when they're cold!
I also love that cold start burble! Must be fun with the PSE - I know those things really rattle when they're cold!
You are also right the PSE does make a lot of noise when its cold....I like that...
Thanks for your help with my rocker questions the other day.
Drive it like ya stole it....Then trade it before the warranty runs out
#26
10-29-2009, 08:35 PM
BTW, BMW manuals say the same thing - don't idle the car to warm it up. I think it has more to do with fouling the plugs and everything else by sitting and idling. Nothing to do with emissions. Better to put a slight load on the engine during the warm up than warming it up at idle. Even if you don't maintain a constant idle. You'll never see an F1 car sitting at idle - even when not running, they don't leave them at a constant RPM.
I want my car not to blow up after the warranty runs out
.
#27
10-29-2009, 09:50 PM
F1 cars don’t sit at idle because they don’t have fans. Also the engines have to be preheated (coolant/Oil) because of how tight the clearances are. Why is the general consensus that a lot of wear happens when cold?
#28
10-29-2009, 10:32 PM
Remember your car is not a f1 car, thus Porsche designed and clearanced the engine so that even and idiot who knows nothing about cars will not hurt the engine. I would be willing to bet the wear on an engine not warmed, and warmed and driven with that 4000-5000rpm range would be insignificant when driving on the street. This fall in line with the train of thought of people that change their oil ever 2,000 miles thinking it will make their car magically last forever. Unless you store your car outside, and it gets down below freezing you are worrying too much. Now if you’re going to push an engine into the 6000-7000rpm region, or are tracking your car then yes warm up is critical. Also why are people so centered on just engines? Transmissions and gears respond/wear differently with temperature.
The engine failure bad rap of 911s imo is due to the early 996’s, and cars that are beaten or improperly modified. Not driving a car enough does more damage then anything. Seals go bad faster, oils don’t lubricate parts. This is why Jay Leno requires a full time mechanic. When you have that many cars driving and maintaining them all becomes work!
The engine failure bad rap of 911s imo is due to the early 996’s, and cars that are beaten or improperly modified. Not driving a car enough does more damage then anything. Seals go bad faster, oils don’t lubricate parts. This is why Jay Leno requires a full time mechanic. When you have that many cars driving and maintaining them all becomes work!
#29
11-07-2009, 11:10 PM
"As a point of reference, my car took about 8 minutes for the oil temperature to get up to 200 degrees on my way home from work tonight. It was about 62 degrees here in San Jose at the time, but the car had been in my office parking garage since around 7 am this morning so it was basically cold."
Got a chance to do a good test today. Car completely cold...67 degrees outside. A mix of street and 2 lane highway driving. I was driving fairly mellow (mostly 3K to 4K).
4 minutes until water was at temp. Approx. 7 minutes until oil was at temp (about 200). Oil temp continued to sneak up for the next 5 minutes or so...but talking increase from 200 to 220.
I am not sure what this tells you in terms of how to warm up...but the fact that the two profiles are so close, this might give you an idea of "normal" warm up speed.
Got a chance to do a good test today. Car completely cold...67 degrees outside. A mix of street and 2 lane highway driving. I was driving fairly mellow (mostly 3K to 4K).
4 minutes until water was at temp. Approx. 7 minutes until oil was at temp (about 200). Oil temp continued to sneak up for the next 5 minutes or so...but talking increase from 200 to 220.
I am not sure what this tells you in terms of how to warm up...but the fact that the two profiles are so close, this might give you an idea of "normal" warm up speed.
#30
11-08-2009, 12:20 PM
I generally let the motor run for 30 seconds to 1 minute on a dead cold start before moving off. It takes 10 miles/15 minutes for the oil to come up to 200+ degrees with cold outside temperatures. I don't run it up over 4000 rpm, until warmed up.