Every mass produced product made for profit has a marketing angle to it . That trickes into both its design as well as engineering. In fact .. it's been argued that Porsche could easily make a 10 second Turbo but the idea of placing them on public roads with novice drivers may not be a great idea. Porsche could also make a faster Cayman too.

This is not a one of a kind art piece for display . It is a car suited for mass consumption and profit so every detail weighs a cost/benefit .

 

If everyone else knows, forgive me for asking. What would a 10 second turbo be?

Gary

 

This is the first compelling argument that I have read on this thread. It makes me wonder though. because there are already 14 models of 997 with a Turbo S on the way. I would probably agree moreso if the closing prices weren't revealing these high discounts . I am surprised that the replies don't point toward everyone wanting a less expensive S. .

You have a point. I am just not sure if I am convinced that its working in this economy or else 997S cars would sell closer to MSRP . People would pay more for the "built for you" extras -- and that's just not been the case.

Turn back to the 996 . When the 997 was launched the price increase for the S was so high BUT the base car competed with 996 pricing. At that time I posted on another forum (Roadfly) and most at that time felt that the S should have been the only car . They were not pleased with the price increase . But even then an 05 launch car with ceramics cost under 100K . Now a 997s with a load of technology options can almost cost as much as a 996 Turbo did when it was new .

 

Car and driver tested the PDK Turbo . The 1/4 mile was 11 seconds and 0-60 was 2.9. Now they are making a Turbo S for 2011 with more Hp and faster.

Even with the 997.1 the Tuners have broken 11 seconds many with just some bolt on mods. https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...mile-list.html

The Turbo lag on the stock cars , soft suspension . quiet exhaust .. all point toward engeering for street comfort . Porsche didn;t have to built a car this way but they did .

 

type997,

That's exactly the way I felt. I wanted the rigid chassis of a coupe and less road noise. I actually started my Porsche quest with a Cayman S in mind. I'll probably take some heat for saying this here on the 997 forum but I felt the Cayman S handled better. The mid engine layout makes more sense from an engineering standpoint. The reason I didn't select the Cayman S was the fact that you couldn't even see the engine without major disassembly of the car. I also thought it was too noisy and I was kind of concerned that the resale value wouldn't hold up as well as a 997. Sadly, I will need to part company with my car when the warrantee runs out.

 

what are car and drivers numbers on 997.2 S with pdk ?

 

I beg to differ... white car with natural brown and black dials:

 

Ahhhh. Somehow dragstrip terminology and Porsches didn't lie close enough in my mind to make the connection. Amazing the things people do with these wonderful cars.

Well, the quiet exhaust is legislation not choice, but as for the others, I certainly agree Porsche design the regular cars for people to enjoy on the street. I am surprised you're surprised, if you know what I mean.

You can get Porsches in race configuration, but getting this kind of speed in a race car is no challenge at all. The reason we buy... well, the reason most of us buy them is we plan to drive them on the street. As a road car, the Porsches are outrageously fast. Most of my friends can afford only Corvettes and they are shocked at how fast this car is on the roads near the club. Mind you, I can get a Z-06 that will keep up just fine, but a Z-06 isn't as comfortable as a daily driver.

Actually, I don't agree that they "didn't have to build the cars this way." They did. Most people don't want an outright race car.

Gary

 

The Turbo market is somewhat split . Many do in fact modify the cars and a search on auto trader will pull up almost as many modded Turbos as stock. The exhaust is far more quiet than the normally aspirated cars so i am not sure how legislation works with it's Db level. All of the non race exhausts are street legal and even with race exhausts the law varies from state to state . The German regulation is much more strict but even the tuners who sell to both will make different exhaust models.

I suppose that even though it makes no sense to me .. there seems to be an almost unanimous fan base to retain the 997 base car .. at least seen on this thread.

What shocks me is that it actually pushes the "S" price upward to have a base car. I am surprised that most wouldn't prefer one car priced in the middle .

Verde's counterpoint made the most sense that offering many models offers a "built for you" mass customization feature . If only closing prices would support that argument .

I have seen many people buy a base and be happy with it.
I have also seen many people buy a base and want the "S" and even regret not buying it.
I have never seen a person buy an "S" and wish he bought a base car.

But I guess for now -- the base car will continue .

 

The states don't have much to do with this one. The high pole in this tent is Switzerland and the Netherlands. This is a European car first remember, and they went nuts trying to build different models for different countries years ago and probably vowed never again. I suspect that even the PSE 'loud' setting is somehow affected by the European drive-by standard, but I can't swear to that.

Gary

 

I knew if I bought a base I would regret it. Every time I saw an S on the roads I would be staring and saying wow. I did not want that feeling. I have only owned 3 Porsche but they have all been S models

 

Larry's dictum saved the Carrera (for now).

.

 

Here they are together .. in motion .. close in price, close in appearnce, close ....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=023QN7FqaAI

 

Ours cars are mass produced cars like a Toyota Corolla which has a base, LE, SE, XR and XRS models. It is an option to allow consumers to choose depending on their needs and is also a marketing strategy. I just wanted to get into the bandwagon so I thought a base car would suffice. But once you got hooked you'll realize that there is something better and you will be tempted to get another higher model. So there you are, you will not buy once but will turn into a lifetime customer. I almost jumped into the Turbo S but realized that soon it will be an older model and cost of ownership will be higher. But I know the the 998 is around the corner, I am sure it will be around 400hp and it will have an upgraded interior. I think that is the proper time for me to upgrade my base car to a 998 S. Or just get a Ferrari 458 and never upgrade anymore!(I think this is the logical choice).

 

I can't argue that the economy has recently put enormous downward pressure and associated compression on closing prices. And as a result, for now, it's not that the 997 makes little sense, but that the granularity of differentiation between these cars seems too fine for the times. Often you hear on this forum that, for the price of a well optioned 4S, "ya' shoulda' bought the turbo!'"
But this is just one slice in time. It wasn't that long ago that people were complaining that dealers did not 'deal' whatsoever, that markups were frequently the case, and that popular models (with negative discounting) forced people down a rung versus their hopes and dreams.
So if the economic times that we're currently facing really is 'the new normal' then Porsche (and most other consumer product companies) may be facing some major product re-planning. With the upcoming Turbo S, Porsche is again illustrating that they don't think so.