997 2005-2012 911 C2, C2S, C4, C4S, GTS, Targa and Cabriolet Model Discussion.

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  #16  
Old 04-08-2010 | 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by adias
This is a rendition, not the final product. Note though that it is a significant departure from the classic 911 shape. The rear window wing is sharply creased and the engine cover is Bangle-esque. The taillights and exhaust tips are a tip of the hat towards current japanese designs. I'm sure many will like it, but those are not the traditional 911 core fans.

These issues only matter to the core 911 fans. The new masses who mostly care for looks, passing trends, doodads and bragging rights will probably like it.
You are a true lover of Porsche, and that is clear from every post I have read of yours. There is a slight flaw in your love though. At some point you will no longer be buying cars and contributing to likes of the Porsche of days past. With that means that Porsche needs to ever increase its market value by continuing to evolve its design. Although you can evolve for quite some time and still retain the old world charm, at some point evolution will take over and things must progress. Kindly, since they have done a marvelous job of evolving rather than transforming, I am sure there will still be design cues on future cars that hark back to the classic lines that everyone loves.
 
  #17  
Old 04-08-2010 | 09:11 AM
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im worried design, style and interior quality will suffer from VW purscase
 
  #18  
Old 04-08-2010 | 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by P997S
im worried design, style and interior quality will suffer from VW purscase
Why? I do not think so. Interior probably will not be even considered, they already have all small stuff unified.
My concern is that they will enforce unification from small parts level into bigger units level, like replacing propitiatory Porsche tech with unified VW tech - pumps, valves, whole engine for God sake. Who knows.

Unification saves money and kills brands. I just hope Porsche will survive new 'creative' MBA-schooled managers of new generation who only care to boost their personal records for next 2 years to come and then flop this job for a next one. And who cares if 911 as a concept dies during all this...
 
  #19  
Old 04-08-2010 | 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by adias


This is a rendition, not the final product. Note though that it is a significant departure from the classic 911 shape. The rear window wing is sharply creased and the engine cover is Bangle-esque. The taillights and exhaust tips are a tip of the hat towards current japanese designs. I'm sure many will like it, but those are not the traditional 911 core fans.

In addition... this car has been confirmed to have a longer wheelbase - 100mm longer (almost 4") - longer than the Cayman's. That will imply that the 11 will further lose its go-kart dynamics.

These issues only matter to the core 911 fans. The new masses who mostly care for looks, passing trends, doodads and bragging rights will probably like it.
I don't care for the sharp edge running from roofline down to the taillights. The current design is a unbroken curve which seems to be a much smoother design. The tailights seem too large for the car and the tailpipes look aftermarket at best. They could have at least designed the exhaust to exit in the center if they wanted to change something. Overall this is change for the sake of change, without improving the car whatsoever . If I wanted something that was inspired by Japanese design, I'd buy a Nissan.
 

Last edited by PTParks; 04-08-2010 at 11:13 AM.
  #20  
Old 04-08-2010 | 11:24 AM
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I love the rear end...its a winner!
 
  #21  
Old 04-08-2010 | 11:53 AM
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keep in mind, this is just an artist's rendition.. not exactly how it will look when it comes out..

what has been 'confirmed' is the longer wheel base, slightly wider track, side-mirrors on body.. and possibly camera in the mirrors..
 
  #22  
Old 04-08-2010 | 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by PTParks
I don't care for the sharp edge running from roofline down to the taillights. The current design is a unbroken curve which seems to be a much smoother design. The tailights seem too large for the car and the tailpipes look aftermarket at best. They could have at least designed the exhaust to exit in the center if they wanted to change something. Overall this is change for the sake of change, without improving the car whatsoever . If I wanted something that was inspired by Japanese design, I'd buy a Nissan.
Precisely, but as others stated others may like it. And so goes the world.
 
  #23  
Old 04-08-2010 | 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Auto_Union
... I know I'm really reaching here but do you think that the longer wheelbase might give Porsche the opportunity to add two more cylinders? I realize that won't happen at the launch of the 998 but do you think they may consider it a couple of years into production?
Nobody knows why they did that. It is clear that their motorsports division would like to flip the engine and tranny. They told me so in a recent race event. But... it will not be a 911. It will be a mid-engine car that looks like a 911.

Could they put there a flat8? Possible. I doubt though that they will ever do that on production cars. I see the reverse - they may put there a flat4 with some hybrid junk. PAG is working under duress of the EPA and the equivalent EU agency. They are going to hybridize these cars. They are smart and this will not be the 80s all over again, but dynamic performance will suffer and costs will go up.
 
  #24  
Old 04-08-2010 | 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by gloves
You are a true lover of Porsche, and that is clear from every post I have read of yours. There is a slight flaw in your love though. At some point you will no longer be buying cars and contributing to likes of the Porsche of days past. With that means that Porsche needs to ever increase its market value by continuing to evolve its design. Although you can evolve for quite some time and still retain the old world charm, at some point evolution will take over and things must progress. Kindly, since they have done a marvelous job of evolving rather than transforming, I am sure there will still be design cues on future cars that hark back to the classic lines that everyone loves.
At some point I may decide to preserve their best designs, if and when they make a wrong turn. I do not care for evolution for evolution sake, especially if it is politically or culturally driven.
 
  #25  
Old 04-08-2010 | 01:00 PM
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I will wait until the released product before I pass any judgements. But I will say that in that rendering, bumperettes will not look good.
 
  #26  
Old 04-08-2010 | 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by adias
At some point I may decide to preserve their best designs, if and when they make a wrong turn. I do not care for evolution for evolution sake, especially if it is politically or culturally driven.
adias,

I'm totally with you here! As you may know from my previous posts in other threads I only plan to keep my car until the warrantee runs out then I'll be "forced" to sell because I don't have the kind of income that will be able to pay for $2000 repairs and if my engine goes then I would literally be bankrupt. I would be forced to "part the car out" on eBay or something like that. You and I both agree there are advantages to these new DFI engines but I think we would also agree that their long term reliability is still yet to be determined.

That's where driving a classic Porsche makes sense. As you said the driving dynamics of the classic 911's is more pure to it's original design and with less sensors and onboard computers the classic 911's should be (in theory anyway) easier to maintain than a 996 or 997 and modern features like Nav and Bluetooth are easy to add if one desires. I don't know if the 993 has earned the classic label yet only because they aren't really old enough. It certainly will be a classic because they were the last of the air cooled cars and that is what is keeping the prices relatively high.
 

Last edited by Auto_Union; 04-08-2010 at 04:21 PM.
  #27  
Old 04-08-2010 | 05:40 PM
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Do not want.

The back looks like a Panamera and that's NOT a good thing.
I agree that the Japanese-ish styling looks plasticy and cheap.
Stick with the classic 997.1 look and resist the tarty LED lights IMHO.

I suppose the bright side is that I will always believe my 997.1 C4S Cab to be the most beautiful Porsche. Not a bad bright side actually...
 
  #28  
Old 04-08-2010 | 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Auto_Union
adias,

I'm totally with you here! As you may know from my previous posts in other threads I only plan to keep my car until the warrantee runs out then I'll be "forced" to sell because I don't have the kind of income that will be able to pay for $2000 repairs and if my engine goes then I would literally be bankrupt. I would be forced to "part the car out" on eBay or something like that. You and I both agree there are advantages to these new DFI engines but I think we would also agree that their long term reliability is still yet to be determined.

That's where driving a classic Porsche makes sense. As you said the driving dynamics of the classic 911's is more pure to it's original design and with less sensors and onboard computers the classic 911's should be (in theory anyway) easier to maintain than a 996 or 997 and modern features like Nav and Bluetooth are easy to add if one desires. I don't know if the 993 has earned the classic label yet only because they aren't really old enough. It certainly will be a classic because they were the last of the air cooled cars and that is what is keeping the prices relatively high.
I already consider the 997.2 a classic. I see no reason why these cars should not be reliable. they should be able to do 200k miles without major issues.
 
  #29  
Old 04-08-2010 | 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by adias
I already consider the 997.2 a classic. I see no reason why these cars should not be reliable. they should be able to do 200k miles without major issues.
I agree. 997.2 are well designed and the DFIs are great.. so far. I was not a big fan of LEDs are first but they look great now.
 
  #30  
Old 04-08-2010 | 06:23 PM
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I must say that I agree with a number of points that Adias makes. In particular, the continued increase in size and bulk, while likely appealing to a larger cross-section of the buying public, is a turn-off to me and likely many classic Porsche lovers. I can't criticize Porsche and VW. It's a business and they are forced to cater to a demographic that will support growth.
But that's why I have taken some action here. I just purchased an almost new 930 (9K miles). Very raw and exciting driving dynamics. A joy for all of the senses but hardly the kind of car that would cater to the masses today or in the future. But that along with my DD 997.1 are likely to keep me happy for a long time. So in response to the initial post, I'm not the least bit itchy about considering moving to the next model.
And, given the direction in which Porsche seems to be moving will have me looking elsewhere, when it comes time, for another car with great handling dynamics. Probably one of those British/Japanese lightweight thingies.
 

Last edited by Verde; 04-08-2010 at 06:27 PM.


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