Who hasn't taken his car to the track ?
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My friend today (who has experience) told me that he can get me private instruction . it may even be the same instructor who worked with Sin911 --not sure.
He did offer to take me with him but he begins driving in October since the summer here is 95 degrees , humid, and daily thunderstorms . He expressed that it's so hot and one has to use the A/C and with the rain it's worth waiting . Makes sense to me.
He did offer to take me with him but he begins driving in October since the summer here is 95 degrees , humid, and daily thunderstorms . He expressed that it's so hot and one has to use the A/C and with the rain it's worth waiting . Makes sense to me.
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i used to track my 968, I fell in love with the thrill and promptly bought a purpose built race car. So now my 2 Pcars don't get any track time. Plus compared to the formula ford, these cars are slow and heavy.
Cost 15K, Race budget with tires $1000/weekend.
Cost 15K, Race budget with tires $1000/weekend.
Last edited by Sweeper; Jun 26, 2010 at 06:02 AM.
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I have no idea how i will do but I do know that after 15 years of driving thse cars in all types of conditions and roads .. i do feel comfortable in the car .After having both the slower 997S and the fast Turbo with completely different styles i do feel like I have experienced diversity .
I am ready to try.
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Awesome car. I happen to agree that the 997S is slow . I may have never driven on the track but i am not new to driving a faster car . I do feel that compared to my modded Turbo the 997S really is slow but i also realize that the skills developed in formal training will be geared to precision .
I have no idea how i will do but I do know that after 15 years of driving thse cars in all types of conditions and roads .. i do feel comfortable in the car .After having both the slower 997S and the fast Turbo with completely different styles i do feel like I have experienced diversity .
I am ready to try.
I have no idea how i will do but I do know that after 15 years of driving thse cars in all types of conditions and roads .. i do feel comfortable in the car .After having both the slower 997S and the fast Turbo with completely different styles i do feel like I have experienced diversity .
I am ready to try.
And the 997S pdk. Sure shes slower than the turbo with less acceleartion but dont fool yourself she'll be more than enough to handle in these conditions. That 997s car is crazy fast, dont underestimate her on the track. I say she's a better package to drive on track than a turbo....better balanced....more linear, a bit more fun. Turbos faster down the straights but that means more speed to shave off approaching the corners. That S is very quick.
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Awesome car. I happen to agree that the 997S is slow . I may have never driven on the track but i am not new to driving a faster car . I do feel that compared to my modded Turbo the 997S really is slow but i also realize that the skills developed in formal training will be geared to precision .
I have no idea how i will do but I do know that after 15 years of driving thse cars in all types of conditions and roads .. i do feel comfortable in the car .After having both the slower 997S and the fast Turbo with completely different styles i do feel like I have experienced diversity .
I am ready to try.
I have no idea how i will do but I do know that after 15 years of driving thse cars in all types of conditions and roads .. i do feel comfortable in the car .After having both the slower 997S and the fast Turbo with completely different styles i do feel like I have experienced diversity .
I am ready to try.
If you want to try your hand at precision driving, a PCA/POC, SCCA school will give you the training. THere are plenty of rentals you can drive on track, with much less liability. Try a Spec racer Ford, cheap to rent, fully supported, usually max liability is 5K, only if you ruin the car. Bring your helmet, driving suit, HANS (all of this should be used even for a PCA DE) and $$$ and you're in..
Good luck deciding!!!
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She's a very lovely track car but still there is nothing quite like taking your own P car out for a little exercise as well. No point having them and caging them up too tightly.
You'll be fine. Perhaps a little Nervy at first doing something you havent done before but once settled in you'll find its all no big deal at all and is very rewarding. I think the P school days give a nice progressive break in for newbies. You will really like it.....very professional and well organised.
And the 997S pdk. Sure shes slower than the turbo with less acceleartion but dont fool yourself she'll be more than enough to handle in these conditions. That 997s car is crazy fast, dont underestimate her on the track. I say she's a better package to drive on track than a turbo....better balanced....more linear, a bit more fun. Turbos faster down the straights but that means more speed to shave off approaching the corners. That S is very quick.
You'll be fine. Perhaps a little Nervy at first doing something you havent done before but once settled in you'll find its all no big deal at all and is very rewarding. I think the P school days give a nice progressive break in for newbies. You will really like it.....very professional and well organised.
And the 997S pdk. Sure shes slower than the turbo with less acceleartion but dont fool yourself she'll be more than enough to handle in these conditions. That 997s car is crazy fast, dont underestimate her on the track. I say she's a better package to drive on track than a turbo....better balanced....more linear, a bit more fun. Turbos faster down the straights but that means more speed to shave off approaching the corners. That S is very quick.
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Good advice
Most track days are roughly 4 20 min sessions with instructor included in the day fee, being your first time you won't be going all out by any means. Your car can take a few track days, no real worries here IMO....if anything brakes it will be under warranty but to be honest highly unlikely that will happen. M3 also a great track car...... you maybe giving it too much thought as noted. Sign up, run your car, meet other like minded people like yourself, talk with them, pick their brain, see how it goes and make the call... if ytou go with the M3 you will always be woindering what it would have been like in the P car.... pick the track, the event, commit and attend and report back. Good luck.... I have a feeling you will enjoy the day as 1/2 the day at most entry DE events your in a classroom learning other driving tips, rules, etc from typically very good drivers. I bet you have a nice day.... go solo (no wifey) or with another person that plans to track their car ideally someone that has gone before. If you can't find someone again don't fear going solo as you will meet many people that day...... have fun
Too much talking and rationalising will not cure your boredom. Monday morning go straight to your P dealer and pay the fee for level 1 and 2 school. You need to do these schools even if you think you dont want to do track. Your 997s PDK is the most perfect and best car to use so if you can use it, use it!!. And stop worrying about wearing it out. Who are you saving it up for? The next guy? you are already talking about selling it for a gt3 yet you havent even graduated from your 997S yet. Don't underestimate the potential of this car. It will not break or wear out as easy as you may think. Its far better to learn on than any GT3. I used to be exactly like this. Bored, saying im a good enough driver, dont need the schools, dont need track for fun etc etc. The reality is you are definately at the point where this is precisely what you need. You need a push on this. Dont blow it!!
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I have always been very meticulous with my cars and still am. My first M3,a 1995,was meticulously cared for. Never drove it in the rain and wasn't my daily driver. I kept it for two years. When I sold it, I maybe got $1000 more than if I had put more miles on it and had enjoyed it more. My next car was a 528i I drove for 5 years and hated it. I missed my M3 the whole time. My next car was a 2002 E46 M3. I still meticulously maintained it but, told myself it isn't worth the little bit of resale value you gain with low miles and not tracking. I tracked the e46 a few times didn't worry about miles. I enjoyed it thoroughly and sold it six years later for an average price with 52,000 miles on it. When I sold it, I can honestly say I enjoyed to the fullest. It looked perfect when I sold it.
Now to my present car. My 2006 997s. Granted I didn't buy it new but, it is well optioned and it didn't have a mark on it when I bought it. I still meticulously maintain it. I can't walk away from it without looking back at it to admired it. I sometimes go out to the garage just to take a look at it. I try not to drive it in the rain. (Look back at V35's post in this thread) I now have tracked my car two years and run in an intermediate solo group. I told myself when I bought it, it isn't a museum piece and I bought it to enjoy. I had learned a lesson with the first M3. What little money I give up in resale value is well worth the enjoyment I receive in return.
I don't feel like I have pounded on it either. These cars are made for this. I have bought track wheels and tires which definitely enhance the experience and save my PS2s for the street. The R componds have better grip and are more responsive with stiffer side walls. So far I haven't put a mark on my car. There is additional brake wear. I do my own brake work. It doesn't seem to costly to me to track it. It runs, drives and looks just like when I bought it.
So my advice is you really should track the 997s. Your not going to pound it for awhile. What little bit of wear and resale value you might lose, chalk it up to the cost of having fun. Quit worring about what it's worth every minute and enjoy it. You really don't know what you are missing with your car. I have been reading here on the board for at least a couple of years (I just don't post much). I know how much you love Porsches from your post and feel like you owe it to yourself to really feel and enjoy what your car is capable of on the track before you sell it. Your love isn't with the M3. It's with the Porsches you own. Track the Porsche and see what you really got. You may not be bored with it after that and keep it for awhile.
On another note. I would love a GT3 but, I know I don't need it. I've become plenty quick now with track time and the R componds but, I'm not going for ultimate lap times. It's all relative. It's still a great experience in the 997s. You sure don't need to worry that you need to start tracking with a GT3 imho. I agree with something you said about a lot of us sinking a lot of money into a 997s to try to bring it up to GT3 standards. It's not worth it inmho. First of all it's a DE not a race. I have a friend who had a well prepared GT3. He is a very good driver. Rode with him a few times and I must say he was quick and its a whole different level. IMHO at the end of the the day, it's about the proper line, braking and shifting among the important things. The experience is the same in either car, just a difference in lap times. At least with R componds on my car the experience seems close to the same.
I hope I made some kind of sense in this long rambling post. Hope this helps.
Now to my present car. My 2006 997s. Granted I didn't buy it new but, it is well optioned and it didn't have a mark on it when I bought it. I still meticulously maintain it. I can't walk away from it without looking back at it to admired it. I sometimes go out to the garage just to take a look at it. I try not to drive it in the rain. (Look back at V35's post in this thread) I now have tracked my car two years and run in an intermediate solo group. I told myself when I bought it, it isn't a museum piece and I bought it to enjoy. I had learned a lesson with the first M3. What little money I give up in resale value is well worth the enjoyment I receive in return.
I don't feel like I have pounded on it either. These cars are made for this. I have bought track wheels and tires which definitely enhance the experience and save my PS2s for the street. The R componds have better grip and are more responsive with stiffer side walls. So far I haven't put a mark on my car. There is additional brake wear. I do my own brake work. It doesn't seem to costly to me to track it. It runs, drives and looks just like when I bought it.
So my advice is you really should track the 997s. Your not going to pound it for awhile. What little bit of wear and resale value you might lose, chalk it up to the cost of having fun. Quit worring about what it's worth every minute and enjoy it. You really don't know what you are missing with your car. I have been reading here on the board for at least a couple of years (I just don't post much). I know how much you love Porsches from your post and feel like you owe it to yourself to really feel and enjoy what your car is capable of on the track before you sell it. Your love isn't with the M3. It's with the Porsches you own. Track the Porsche and see what you really got. You may not be bored with it after that and keep it for awhile.
On another note. I would love a GT3 but, I know I don't need it. I've become plenty quick now with track time and the R componds but, I'm not going for ultimate lap times. It's all relative. It's still a great experience in the 997s. You sure don't need to worry that you need to start tracking with a GT3 imho. I agree with something you said about a lot of us sinking a lot of money into a 997s to try to bring it up to GT3 standards. It's not worth it inmho. First of all it's a DE not a race. I have a friend who had a well prepared GT3. He is a very good driver. Rode with him a few times and I must say he was quick and its a whole different level. IMHO at the end of the the day, it's about the proper line, braking and shifting among the important things. The experience is the same in either car, just a difference in lap times. At least with R componds on my car the experience seems close to the same.
I hope I made some kind of sense in this long rambling post. Hope this helps.
I couldn't agree more .... I'm so tired of saving my cars for the next owner.... I'm going to drive this car every chance I get... I'll take care of it to the extreme, which is something I also enjoy doing, but the car will be driven.... and enjoyed... Fortunately the car came with the first scratch already installed and at no additional charge by the dealer...
The car has more skills built into it that I'll never be able to exploit all the possibilities.
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Don't feel bad when you have to give a point by to a guy in a Boxster...LOL...it hapens.
Last edited by mdrums; Jun 26, 2010 at 09:59 AM.
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I recently tracked my car for the very first time (not a 911). I was apprehensive before my first DE. The thought of additional wear and tear and even crashing my beloved vehicle had me thinking twice about attending.
I even thought about taking my significantly slower DD or renting a car, but I didn't and I took my "fun" car (which is a lot less fun than even your M3). I bought grippier tires for a spare set of wheels, Hawk track/street brake pads, ATE Super Blue brake fluid and some upgraded brake rotors. I purchased dedicated track tires, rotors and brake pads so I could switch them out for their street counterparts after track use. Everyone told me I would love the track, so I prepared to attend future events, just in case.
I highly recommend riding as a passenger with a more experienced driver before taking your car out, if you choose not to get an instructor. I did this with a friend who drives an RX-7. I was able to roughly learn how to take all the turns and general braking points before the 20 minute session was over. The session gave me a better understanding of what to do when it was my turn to drive. Keep in mind that your car will probably not handle or brake exactly like your friend's vehicle, so you will have to experiment to find your braking points and "line."
I had a blast my first time out. I drove my car fast, but I never got to a point where I was uncomfortable. There is no trophy or prize to win, so there is no reason to dangerously push your car. Regardless, I did well for my first day. I was faster than average in the beginner group and I wasn't the slowest car in the intermediate group.
My first track day helped me appreciate my car's ability. I can only imagine how much fun and how much appreaciation you will get from your turbo, s, or even your M3.
If you're afraid of damaging you paint/clear bra, you may want to use Scott's masking tape on areas where small flying rocks may hit your paint. It may look funny, but it will add an additional layer of protection. Oh and your tire pressure will increase with a few laps. I found it beneficial to lower my tire pressure a little before my first lap begins.
If at any time you feel uncomfortable, you can always bring in your car before your session is over.
Good Luck!
This guy was in my beginner group. Too bad I was never passed up by it and I never passed it.
My friend took this picture when we first set out on the "orientation" lap. You can see some of that blue tape I was talking about.
More blue tape, but on a GTR
What Larry's Turbo will resemble in the near future. I kid.
I even thought about taking my significantly slower DD or renting a car, but I didn't and I took my "fun" car (which is a lot less fun than even your M3). I bought grippier tires for a spare set of wheels, Hawk track/street brake pads, ATE Super Blue brake fluid and some upgraded brake rotors. I purchased dedicated track tires, rotors and brake pads so I could switch them out for their street counterparts after track use. Everyone told me I would love the track, so I prepared to attend future events, just in case.
I highly recommend riding as a passenger with a more experienced driver before taking your car out, if you choose not to get an instructor. I did this with a friend who drives an RX-7. I was able to roughly learn how to take all the turns and general braking points before the 20 minute session was over. The session gave me a better understanding of what to do when it was my turn to drive. Keep in mind that your car will probably not handle or brake exactly like your friend's vehicle, so you will have to experiment to find your braking points and "line."
I had a blast my first time out. I drove my car fast, but I never got to a point where I was uncomfortable. There is no trophy or prize to win, so there is no reason to dangerously push your car. Regardless, I did well for my first day. I was faster than average in the beginner group and I wasn't the slowest car in the intermediate group.
My first track day helped me appreciate my car's ability. I can only imagine how much fun and how much appreaciation you will get from your turbo, s, or even your M3.
If you're afraid of damaging you paint/clear bra, you may want to use Scott's masking tape on areas where small flying rocks may hit your paint. It may look funny, but it will add an additional layer of protection. Oh and your tire pressure will increase with a few laps. I found it beneficial to lower my tire pressure a little before my first lap begins.
If at any time you feel uncomfortable, you can always bring in your car before your session is over.
Good Luck!
This guy was in my beginner group. Too bad I was never passed up by it and I never passed it.
My friend took this picture when we first set out on the "orientation" lap. You can see some of that blue tape I was talking about.
More blue tape, but on a GTR
What Larry's Turbo will resemble in the near future.
I kid.
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I recomend a PCA DE. I was really lucky with instructors. The last two instructors I had, one had over ten years experience and the last one had over twenty years of track expience. Both truly where enthusiast that really worked hard to make me a competent driver. Good instructors and learning from what they can share is the key.
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I've been passed on the street by guys in Boxsters , and Hondas .. not because my car is slower but because they take unnecessary and unsafe risks that i won't . 52 years and no accidents . If they do it on the track .. they can pass too . I want to live another 52 years .
Whether i can sustain high speed in certain corners obviously takes skill and practice . Whether i have or can develop those skills over time will still never make the 997S faster .
In the Turbo even if i have no skills it won't make the car slower . I might be slower .. but it's still a faster car.
Since i drive both cars .. the Turbo really truly eats the 997S to pieces on any straight run and it's not exactly a wimp in corners . I agree that stock it's quite boring but thse tuned Turbos become very ,very ,intense --with how they take to modifications .
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+1 on what mdrums is saying. I had driven fast cars all my life on the street. The first time I hit the track, I was shocked how little I new and how slow I was. That first session was pretty humbling for me. The key is to leave your ego at home and have an open mind to learn.
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And if you find yourself wanting to further your experience on track then thats when that gt3 will come into play....but not before gaining experience with manging the 997S. At least it wont bite as hard as the 3 if you get things wrong.
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I've done a lot of things and most of my regrets are the of the things I didn't do.