997s v. M3
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I would agree that the M3 handles better, and am not as shocked to hear it. 911s are a harder beast to drive, and once you get to terms with them they are more capable than an M3, although in pure handling terms I would say the M3 is superior.
I drove an M3 a while back when I was tempted into buying one instead of my 330, it was fast, it handled beautifully, but it was a bit too clinical for my liking.
I drove an M3 a while back when I was tempted into buying one instead of my 330, it was fast, it handled beautifully, but it was a bit too clinical for my liking.
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Chef,
thank you for crystalising the salient features of pcars vs others. please start a thread on the subject -- i think it would be very helpful for myself and others
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there is no way that any current m3 should be ahead of you in any way on any road...
poor brand new m3 thought he was going to walk away on a little one lane black top. i nearly rear ended him three times and i wasn't pushing things. would have done the same in a NA car.
i wouldn't get an m3 with a new 3 out in about 6 mos. i know the m3 won't be out for a while, but the replacement for the 997 will not be out for a long time. Go for it.
thank you for crystalising the salient features of pcars vs others. please start a thread on the subject -- i think it would be very helpful for myself and others
.there is no way that any current m3 should be ahead of you in any way on any road...
poor brand new m3 thought he was going to walk away on a little one lane black top. i nearly rear ended him three times and i wasn't pushing things. would have done the same in a NA car.
i wouldn't get an m3 with a new 3 out in about 6 mos. i know the m3 won't be out for a while, but the replacement for the 997 will not be out for a long time. Go for it.
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Can a properly modded M3 take on the new 997 S? An M3 guy in Houston has the following modifications.
BHS UDP, BHS Hydrostatic fan replace, Race Software, 14" Brembo BBK F/R, Carbon pads, Motorsport ST brace, Bilstein PSS9, UCC SSK, UUC RK3 **** & Ebrake, UUC TME, UUC Sway barbs, UUC pedals, UUC CS, stainless brake lines, K-40, Delage Sport C/F airbox, Eisenmann Race 83mm, SuperSprint X-pipe, SuperSprint Race cats, SuperSprint headers, Clear markers, Silvervision bulbs, MAshaw CF front splitter, ACS roof spoiler, Schrick 272/280 cams
Would that come close at all to equaling the performance of the 997 S?
I am such a noob here, but I am curious about the 2 cars. I have an M Coupe, not an M3, and am looking to purchase my first 911.
Thanks!
BHS UDP, BHS Hydrostatic fan replace, Race Software, 14" Brembo BBK F/R, Carbon pads, Motorsport ST brace, Bilstein PSS9, UCC SSK, UUC RK3 **** & Ebrake, UUC TME, UUC Sway barbs, UUC pedals, UUC CS, stainless brake lines, K-40, Delage Sport C/F airbox, Eisenmann Race 83mm, SuperSprint X-pipe, SuperSprint Race cats, SuperSprint headers, Clear markers, Silvervision bulbs, MAshaw CF front splitter, ACS roof spoiler, Schrick 272/280 cams
Would that come close at all to equaling the performance of the 997 S?
I am such a noob here, but I am curious about the 2 cars. I have an M Coupe, not an M3, and am looking to purchase my first 911.
Thanks!
Last edited by Mcoupe; Apr 4, 2005 at 04:15 PM.
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Re: 997s v. M3
Originally posted by TheJudge
I test drove a 997s and an M3 yesterday and found the m3 to be a better handling car. The PSM was kicking in very early on the Porsche and the car was not very stable with a tremendous amount of oversteer. Being that I have waited years for the 997s, I am fairly dissapointed at its performance. Is it possible that an M3 handles better than a 911?
I test drove a 997s and an M3 yesterday and found the m3 to be a better handling car. The PSM was kicking in very early on the Porsche and the car was not very stable with a tremendous amount of oversteer. Being that I have waited years for the 997s, I am fairly dissapointed at its performance. Is it possible that an M3 handles better than a 911?
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Originally posted by Mcoupe
Can a properly modded M3 take on the new 997 S? An M3 guy in Houston has the following modifications.
BHS UDP, BHS Hydrostatic fan replace, Race Software, 14" Brembo BBK F/R, Carbon pads, Motorsport ST brace, Bilstein PSS9, UCC SSK, UUC RK3 **** & Ebrake, UUC TME, UUC Sway barbs, UUC pedals, UUC CS, stainless brake lines, K-40, Delage Sport C/F airbox, Eisenmann Race 83mm, SuperSprint X-pipe, SuperSprint Race cats, SuperSprint headers, Clear markers, Silvervision bulbs, MAshaw CF front splitter, ACS roof spoiler, Schrick 272/280 cams
Would that come close at all to equaling the performance of the 997 S?
I am such a noob here, but I am curious about the 2 cars. I have an M Coupe, not an M3, and am looking to purchase my first 911.
Thanks!
Can a properly modded M3 take on the new 997 S? An M3 guy in Houston has the following modifications.
BHS UDP, BHS Hydrostatic fan replace, Race Software, 14" Brembo BBK F/R, Carbon pads, Motorsport ST brace, Bilstein PSS9, UCC SSK, UUC RK3 **** & Ebrake, UUC TME, UUC Sway barbs, UUC pedals, UUC CS, stainless brake lines, K-40, Delage Sport C/F airbox, Eisenmann Race 83mm, SuperSprint X-pipe, SuperSprint Race cats, SuperSprint headers, Clear markers, Silvervision bulbs, MAshaw CF front splitter, ACS roof spoiler, Schrick 272/280 cams
Would that come close at all to equaling the performance of the 997 S?
I am such a noob here, but I am curious about the 2 cars. I have an M Coupe, not an M3, and am looking to purchase my first 911.
Thanks!
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Originally posted by ben, lj
what's the point of comparing a modded m3 to a bone stock 997s? btw, the former has a history of blowing up on it's already overstressed motor. you can buy a used 996 cheaper than you can an m3. put the same mods in both and say bye bye to the M3. the m3 is just way heavier to start. as well, it has a higher center of gravity.
what's the point of comparing a modded m3 to a bone stock 997s? btw, the former has a history of blowing up on it's already overstressed motor. you can buy a used 996 cheaper than you can an m3. put the same mods in both and say bye bye to the M3. the m3 is just way heavier to start. as well, it has a higher center of gravity.
btw is that your GT in the avatar? My boss just bought one. He was having a hard time getting used to the clutch his first day driving it.
How do you like it?
Last edited by Mcoupe; Apr 4, 2005 at 05:51 PM.
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Originally posted by TheJudge
im definately not used to it. thats for sure. i guess I was expecting it to correct my shortcomings as a driver.
im definately not used to it. thats for sure. i guess I was expecting it to correct my shortcomings as a driver.
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Originally posted by TheJudge
Chef,
You just summed up my whole experience as if you were there. Thats exactly what it was. First, slight understeer. I'd loosen up and then a great deal of oversteer.
Chef,
You just summed up my whole experience as if you were there. Thats exactly what it was. First, slight understeer. I'd loosen up and then a great deal of oversteer.
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Re: Commitment!
Originally posted by Le Chef
The trick with the 911 is to plan the corner. You can't just arrive at it and then decide what to do, as you might in a Boxster or M3.
You need to pick your apex, brake in a straight line, and you'll probably find you're going slower than you think you should. Aim past the apex and begin to smoothly apply the power. If you've judged the corner right you should not need to back off.
Committment is keeping the gas pedal nailed to the floor and not lifting (all that weight in the rear gets loose otherwise). You have to have faith in the car that it will push you round the corner and not push you off the road. and it won't try to push you off unless you back off.
The car has absolutely STAGGERING levels of grip, when you drive it as it likes to be driven. Get hesitant, back off, brake, reapply the gas and it will go all schizophrenic on you, as you've experienced.
But don't discount the effect of low temperatures and off tire pressures.
My suggestion would be to go back and try again, but to check the pressures first (don't accept bs from the sales guy, do it yourself), and importantly change your technique to the way that suits the car.
There was an article in EVO recently where an experienced driver and "novice" drove the 997 and 987 back to back. It makes very interesting reading and I think you would find some comfort in what it says.
The 911 is much more challenging to drive well than a Boxster or M3. If after all that you still don't like it, try something else. Not everyone likes the 911's way of handling, nor should they have to.
Cheers!
The trick with the 911 is to plan the corner. You can't just arrive at it and then decide what to do, as you might in a Boxster or M3.
You need to pick your apex, brake in a straight line, and you'll probably find you're going slower than you think you should. Aim past the apex and begin to smoothly apply the power. If you've judged the corner right you should not need to back off.
Committment is keeping the gas pedal nailed to the floor and not lifting (all that weight in the rear gets loose otherwise). You have to have faith in the car that it will push you round the corner and not push you off the road. and it won't try to push you off unless you back off.
The car has absolutely STAGGERING levels of grip, when you drive it as it likes to be driven. Get hesitant, back off, brake, reapply the gas and it will go all schizophrenic on you, as you've experienced.
But don't discount the effect of low temperatures and off tire pressures.
My suggestion would be to go back and try again, but to check the pressures first (don't accept bs from the sales guy, do it yourself), and importantly change your technique to the way that suits the car.
There was an article in EVO recently where an experienced driver and "novice" drove the 997 and 987 back to back. It makes very interesting reading and I think you would find some comfort in what it says.
The 911 is much more challenging to drive well than a Boxster or M3. If after all that you still don't like it, try something else. Not everyone likes the 911's way of handling, nor should they have to.
Cheers!
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Originally posted by neil.schneider
Judge,
Read the Road and Track comparo from last month. It said once you get used to it the car handles great. The harder he pushed the better it felt. But it even took time for a race car driver to get used to it.
Judge,
Read the Road and Track comparo from last month. It said once you get used to it the car handles great. The harder he pushed the better it felt. But it even took time for a race car driver to get used to it.
