I intend to do no more than 5 DE events this year, and this will be my first foray into track days with the PCA.

I don't want to get ahead of myself, but I envision hitting the ground running if you know what I mean. I won't be holding anyone up in Green.

My 997.2 non-S is also my daily driver. So, I'm going to have the OEM fluid changed over to better stuff before my first outing, but I'm more concerned about which pads to use. I know this is a broad question. But here are my criteria. I am going to keep my OEM rotors and so I want a pad that isn't going to chew them up. 2) I'll be satisfied with only a mild improvement in stopping torque and fade resistance; but 3) the pads should be inexpensive, otherwise I could just burn through the stock pads. Also, I have no suspension mods, and I intend to run on pilot sports, although I may mount up some Toyo R888s to my winter wheels - maybe.

Apparently, the calipers on my car are not the open design of the S. Not sure if I can change the pads easily myself for track days. That would factor in since I'd have to drive the car 50 miles round trip to and from the closest track.

I know this type of question has been asked and answered, but as far as I could tell, not directly in regrard to a non-S gen II car.

Thanks for any help/feedback.

Regards,
DRP

 

I'm not sure how different the brakes are between an S and non-S but the S brakes are more than sufficient for most DE's. If you don't have actual track experience to know that you need something more aggressive, I'd recommend you stick with the oem pads and see how it goes. Porsche has notoriously good oem brakes and in a 20-30 minute DE session fade is likely to be negligible unless you're really over cooking them.

RE: R888's; Again, if you don't have prior track experience, recommend you stick with non r-comp street tires. They are much more predictable at the limits, you'll learn faster and significantly lower the probability of becoming an off-track incident statistic. R-comps (and slicks) are much less forgiving, require a more aggressive alignment to get the most out of them and that requires suspension upgrades - the start of the slippery slope!

Finally, free advice, fwiw, forget about going fast and passing or staying in front of other drivers......go smooooth. Keep the car dynamically balanced and fast will take care of itself. Nobody has ever "won" a DE! Most of all, have a great time!

 

thanks for the feedback,

I'm less interested in increasing the performance of the car at a DE, and more interested in preserving the OEM brakes and tires for Mon-Friday commute.

I figured track tires and pads would be a step in the right direction. But, perhaps I'm jumping the gun.

I drive the car 14k mi a year (90% suburban), and with 16k now on the clock, there's a lip on the rotors. I don't want to have to shell out $2k for new brakes every 18 months, and then another $1,500 for rear rubber every year just because I do DE, if a set of pads and some track tires will preserve my daily equipment.

I realized this concept with snow tires years ago. They're cheaper than the summer tires and they keep miles off your summer rubber while delivering a superior performance under winter conditions. I though the same would apply to track tires and pads....?

As for the speed in Green group. Your point is well made. We're there to learn how to drive the car properly, not set a fast lap. But I've been to the track twice for DE to observe and some of the cars are going painfully slow in Green. To each his own.

Regards,
DRP

 

"......and some of the cars are going painfully slow in Green...."

Yes, that can certainly be the case and some even seem to be checking a road map before committing to the next corner. Ah, well, we all learn differently.

But, take a deep breath, don't ***** about it to your instructor too much and stick to getting the core competencies right. Once you've got it, you'll be moved to a faster run group rather quickly. Should you get caught in a conga line, just pull into the pits and the starter will get you out on some clean track with a minimal loss of time. Part of moving up involves appropriate and correct circumstantial decision making and how you handle it says a lot to the instructor corps and CDI. Temperance is often rewarded; unnecessary aggressiveness, not so much.

Not sure what to say about brakes and tires except that they are consummables and the track is a consumption machine. You can get a good set of 4 new street/track tires for under $1K at Tire Rack and I figure on new pads once a year ($400 + labor) and new rotors every two years (pads + $800 + labor). Changing pads before and after every DE is a pita in my book and "misery, after all, is optional". It's just the cost of having fun! Best,

 

Leave it stock, you will ROT before the car does.

 

BTW ROT means Run Out of Talent

 

good advice on here so far - keep it stock. in my experience, good track pads and good track tires cost the same if not more than stock BUT the track pads will wear rotors faster and the tires wear faster (ah, the price of better stopping and more grip). your cheapest route is to keep it stock. OEM is plenty good for beginner.

and i wouldnt even worry about getting a second set of OEM anything for track days. that's sorta like hot dogs and buns - one comes in 8pk, the other in 10 but sooner or later this disparity works out if you buy enough. i.e. whether you buy extra stuff now and get 4yrs of street/track use before having to buy anything else OR you run out your current stuff in 2yrs, then buy another set to use for 2 years...youre still paying same price 4yrs down the road. (does that make ANY sense? god i hope so cuz even i'm confused. but it sounded good in me brain thingy.)

my .02 cents.

 

that's awesome, i will use that one.

however, what if he runs...flat out?

 

Just curious if anyone had recommendations for small steps in improvement over the OEM pads?

The track I run on is very hard on brakes and I do get some fade. Fresh OEM brake fluid helped. In the process of upgrading to ATE gold fluid, GT3 brake duct spoilers, stainless steel brake lines, and possibly pads- the OEMs glazed a bit last time.

OEMs or.... Pagid....or other? Same situation as the original poster- needs to be OK for a daily driver. Leaning toward OEMs after reading this thread.

 

there's no upside to modifying your brake setup until you have a lot of personal experience with them. fresh fluid and OEM equipment will do it.

regarding the commute, you will wear out your brakes and rotors - that's a noble goal for a DE

however, you won't jeopardize your commute if you pay attention. buy a set of spares now and have them - so at a minimum you can put on new pads if you get surprised at the track.

i think you will end up with a little fade depending on how hard you're bombing into corners. that's where fresh fluid helps.

 

you can overheat your brakes even in green group if you will start driving on r-comps and will brake properly hard coming down from straight. stock pads may or may not fail you in such conditions.

i would still prepare car mildly for track - for pads usually people get pagid yellow RS29 or RS19. in 997.2 C2 I think it will be a bit of pain as that new caliper design does not allow to change pads without taking whole caliper apart, so it is a bit of a complication cmpared to mine where this procedure takes 5 min.

those pads are tricky business - on my car with my old rotors they scream louder than I ever heard. I bought new rotors and will try this season to keep them on all the time. I wish I would buy something of less squeaky category of aftermarket pads, may be similar to ones that come with gt3 cars stock. RS29 are very good on a track but on a street - impossible to tolerate. but on some cars they are almost silent. go figure.

as complete set of pads costs $500+ - do some research prior to buying them. as of rotors - keep stock ones.

also get proper ventilation installed first as it is a snal-on thing and easy DIY job -
i have regular gt3 ducts
http://www.suncoastparts.com/product...734148492.html

and with some trimming I got them installed on both axles - front and rear. it helps as it is better than nothing.

for proper ventilation you need 'cup' ducts or those:
http://www.suncoastparts.com/product...634111890.html
http://www.suncoastparts.com/product//997GT3DUCTS.html

 

slowing down from 130mph to 50mph starting from between marks 3 and 2 at NHMS straight makes stock pads fade just fine. quite a nasty feeling to sense how your brake pads melt.

as of talent per group - i am SCDA solo but still in green group within PCA - don`t have time to get enough seat time for them to consider propagation. they are quite strict apparently on a rule for newcomers to do at least 5 track days with them before suggesting 'upgrade' - perhaps there is plenty of rational in that. if time will permit may be will register with NASA this year as well. getting 'upgraded' in several concurrent organizations takes some time.

 

ZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzziiiiiing!

 

Went out to lime rock in April. Had a complete blast. It was my first outing. I had the good fortune of being paired up with a great instructor who was very like minded which made the experience even better (he's also a 6speed member). The only thing I did was a brake flush. I had them put in ATE 200.

After reading the comments, considering my options and experiencing the car on track, I'll stick with the OEM pads/rotors and have fun wearing them out

On the main straight I was coming from 130 down to 60 for Big Ben, but because it was not late braking, it didn't feel as though I was using as much overall braking force compared to the hard stab I was giving it before west bend. The pedal never went soft. The ambient was pretty low @ 50 degrees.

My instructor observed pad transfer on the rotor. Not sure exactly what that is, but I intend to educate myself on the science of brake wear.

Thanks for the input and advice. For my next DE in May, I think I'll give the GT3 brake ducts a try?

Regards,
DRP

 

Thanks for sharing Doc. I did a couple days last year, before I joined this board, and liked it, but felt unsure about the maintenance aspects, so didn't know if I would go back. Then, after soliciting and receiving good track prep advice on this board, I did two days at NJMP last week and am signed up for more starting in May. It really is addictive! The driving instructions finally sunk in for me on these days -- finish all your braking before the turn, squeeze the gas slowly into the apex, etc. I am also massively impressed how these cars can take a beating on the track and then ride home the same day in comfort.

I'm doing a fluids change next week. Decided to go with Redline 5w40 and Motul600 based on seeming consensus on this board. My expectation is that one oil change and brake flush will be enough for the year (about 8 track days in intermediate run group). If it's not, I will upgrade to Castrol SRF and try to get a year out of that.

Brakes: I went into last weeks' days with plenty of (OEM) pad wear left and came out with plenty. I hit about 125 on the straights before braking to 60 on a hard turn. Some slight fade on the later laps but not significant. Also ambient temps in low 50s. No visible wear on rotors. I'm also planning to stay stock on the brakes, at least until I get through one set of pads, and probably after. With pagids, I'm concerned about brake noise on the street and prematurely eating through my rotors. OEM pads are cheap and have enough bite for me for the foreseeable future -- I'm just curious how long they will last.

Tires: I have Pirelli Zeros on now (street and track). I'm thinking about Hankooks for my next pair, but haven't found anyone who's put them to the test of multiple track days.

I'm also pondering whether to buy some rhinoramps and change fluids and pads myself in the future, but I think that will depend on how often they end up needing to be done.

Overall, the longevity of any of these parts/fluids seems to have a pretty wide deviation in people's opinions. I started a post on this a few months back and got some pretty different answers on wear. I think it probably has a lot to do with driving habits, track temps, etc., so we each have to see how it plays out for ourselves.