My Dilemma: Porsche or Fisker
Update: I thought I would update you all on my continuing saga. I did order a the Fisker last week after I finally did a test drive. But, after spending the past year with events like the PSDS, DS and DE, I finally decided I can't go on with out having a 911. So I couldn't believe it when my wife said I can keep both. However,there is a catch...her wagon stays in the garage and one of my cars has to stay outside....tried reasoning the 10 year old wagon is not worth much so it should go outside but then I realized I should quit while I was ahead. So my options.
1) Put my 09 C4s with 7200 miles outside...quick way to devalue the car in the NW
2) Try to stack the cars with a lift, but I have friggin' 18" beam in the middle of my 10 ft garage that would make that difficult
3) Trade in my 09 with PDK that still has 3 year warrantee for an 05 stick that will have significantly lower value and I wont mind it being outside as much. I think I want stick anyway since now the car will be primarily be used for DEs. Plus I can freely modify it since I would no longer have to worry about warrantee issues.
4) Just get rid of the C4S. The Fisker dealer said that they would give me 78K for it which I thought was pretty good especially when I look at the tax benefits it gives me with the Fisker...about $7500. Then I just buy a 2005 when the time is right.
Love to hear all of your thoughts.
1) Put my 09 C4s with 7200 miles outside...quick way to devalue the car in the NW
2) Try to stack the cars with a lift, but I have friggin' 18" beam in the middle of my 10 ft garage that would make that difficult
3) Trade in my 09 with PDK that still has 3 year warrantee for an 05 stick that will have significantly lower value and I wont mind it being outside as much. I think I want stick anyway since now the car will be primarily be used for DEs. Plus I can freely modify it since I would no longer have to worry about warrantee issues.
4) Just get rid of the C4S. The Fisker dealer said that they would give me 78K for it which I thought was pretty good especially when I look at the tax benefits it gives me with the Fisker...about $7500. Then I just buy a 2005 when the time is right.
Love to hear all of your thoughts.
It's your decision... but have you seen the FK reports, lousy range, poor performance, battery issues. Why do you want such a car?
You have to ask yourself two questions.
Do you want a high performance car with a proven track record, high reliability, readily available parts and service backed up by one of the largest car makers in the world. Then the Porsche is the answer.
Do you want a trophy car without a proven track record, unknown reliability, limited or non-existent parts and service availability, first year of production with a high likelihood of significant design and engineering problems backed by a shell company with virtually no real assets, and real questions as to whether it will actually ever be made, and one that if it is you will probably never really be able to drive much. Then Fisker is the answer.
Do you want a high performance car with a proven track record, high reliability, readily available parts and service backed up by one of the largest car makers in the world. Then the Porsche is the answer.
Do you want a trophy car without a proven track record, unknown reliability, limited or non-existent parts and service availability, first year of production with a high likelihood of significant design and engineering problems backed by a shell company with virtually no real assets, and real questions as to whether it will actually ever be made, and one that if it is you will probably never really be able to drive much. Then Fisker is the answer.
I must say i pretty much agree with everyone of you on all of your points. Adias asks a very pointed question that hits home...."why do you want such a car?" I thought about this for awhile and thought about something we can all relate to....nothing we do when it comes to cars is rational to the normal human being. From taking a perfectly good car and modifying it to taking a new car to the limits on the track on the edge of disaster. This is just another on of my irrational moments that I will likely regret. Like when i got rid of my 1965 Dodge Coronet in 2003 that I remember my dad driving down the driveway when i was 4. I regret that and have been searching ever since to buy it back. To help me cope with my irrational behavior, I look at Adias's quote in his signature: "Dream as impractical, irrational and unnecessary as that may be... Here's to the Dreamers!" -- Porsche AG.
So let me be clear. My C4S has been the best car I have ever owned, no question. With th PDK transmission, its an engineering marvel. When I accelerate onto the freeway or navigate through the turns on the track, its near perfection. Its like being married to a Stepford wife...I get everything the way i want it, when I want it how i want it. I'm looking for that mistress that I know will give me nothing but trouble, like fatal attraction...completely irrational.
As a result of all of the good inputs, here are my leanings (that are likely to change until I take delivery of the Fisker in March):
So let me be clear. My C4S has been the best car I have ever owned, no question. With th PDK transmission, its an engineering marvel. When I accelerate onto the freeway or navigate through the turns on the track, its near perfection. Its like being married to a Stepford wife...I get everything the way i want it, when I want it how i want it. I'm looking for that mistress that I know will give me nothing but trouble, like fatal attraction...completely irrational.
As a result of all of the good inputs, here are my leanings (that are likely to change until I take delivery of the Fisker in March):
- Trade in my C4S with PDK since it still has a lot of its value.
- Reconfigure my Garage, believe it or not, I have a three car garage. One bay will have the fisker, another will have my wifes car and the third has all of the bikes and kids crap. Frankly we have too much crap. i need to figure out how to clean and store it differently
- Buy a 2002 C4S (6 speed) for the weekends, track and bad weather and get back into really driving a car...the PDK has made me lazy.
- Add a 991 to my stable in a couple years. Maybe a turbo or GT3.
Last edited by lowpue; Dec 26, 2011 at 09:45 AM.
I must say i pretty much agree with everyone of you on all of your points. Adias asks a very pointed question that hits home...."why do you want such a car?" I thought about this for awhile and thought about something we can all relate to....nothing we do when it comes to cars is rational to the normal human being. From taking a perfectly good car and modifying it to taking a new car to the limits on the track on the edge of disaster. This is just another on of my irrational moments that I will likely regret. Like when i got rid of my 1965 Dodge Coronet in 2003 that I remember my dad driving down the driveway when i was 4. I regret that and have been searching ever since to buy it back. To help me cope with my irrational behavior, I look at Adias's quote in his signature: "Dream as impractical, irrational and unnecessary as that may be... Here's to the Dreamers!" -- Porsche AG.
So let me be clear. My C4S has been the best car I have ever owned, no question. With th PDK transmission, its an engineering marvel. When I accelerate onto the freeway or navigate through the turns on the track, its near perfection. Its like being married to a Stepford wife...I get everything the way i want it, when I want it how i want it. I'm looking for that mistress that I know will give me nothing but trouble, like fatal attraction...completely irrational.
As a result of all of the good inputs, here are my leanings (that are likely to change until I take delivery of the Fisker in March):
So let me be clear. My C4S has been the best car I have ever owned, no question. With th PDK transmission, its an engineering marvel. When I accelerate onto the freeway or navigate through the turns on the track, its near perfection. Its like being married to a Stepford wife...I get everything the way i want it, when I want it how i want it. I'm looking for that mistress that I know will give me nothing but trouble, like fatal attraction...completely irrational.
As a result of all of the good inputs, here are my leanings (that are likely to change until I take delivery of the Fisker in March):
- Trade in my C4S with PDK since it still has a lot of its value.
- Reconfigure my Garage, believe it or not, I have a three car garage. One bay will have the fisker, another will have my wifes car and the third has all of the bikes and kids crap. Frankly we have too much crap. i need to figure out how to clean and store it differently
- Buy a 2002 C4S (6 speed) for the weekends, track and bad weather and get back into really driving a car...the PDK has made me lazy.
- Add a 991 to my stable in a couple years. Maybe a turbo or GT3.


.
I think the Fiskar is the only hybrid that doesn't compromise. While looks are subjective, unlike other hybrids I think it is well styled. It gets great gas mileage and eliminates the need to ever fill up if you drive less than 50 miles per day and can stay in electric mode. But, if you are going on a trip it has range unlike a pure electric car. Those are nice features. Most importantly, the car does perform. It doesnt accelerate like a sports car but is similar to a S class, 740 or A8. Handling is ok, nowhere near a Panamera but close to a CLS which i think are also fair comparables. I think the interior is on par with Aston since it's supplied by the same company. But this is the only hybrid on earth you could begin to compare to MB, BMW, Audi or Aston. All of that said, I think the early cars will have bugs as the early Valmut Boxsters did. I'm also discouraged that they keep raising the price. This might be one reason to go through with your purchase bc you are locked in at the old price.
In terms of the company, they have great investors (Kleiner and NEA), a great BOD (Vic Doolan) and a world class management team. Most of their dealers own other high line dealers. This is why I think they will get the bugs worked out, given enough time. Remember, they've built a company and a car from scratch faster than GM could build the Volt.
Their loan from the DOE helped finance the purchase of the Boxwood plant from GM in Delaware which is where the next car called Nina will be built. I have seen the Nina and think the value proposition on the car will be better than the Karma. Lower cost (50-60k), BMW motor and possibly many other BMW parts including 5 series chassis, and good, if not better styling than the Karma. While GM had spent over $500m on Boxwood, Fisker only paid $20m. So they will have US based manufacturing and at a discounted set up cost.
Lastly, I see Henrik from time to time and up until about 2 months ago he was always driving a V12 Vantage. I know the manufacturing team has also spent a lot of time in Germany. So I think the target is to inspire like Aston and manufacture like BMW/Mercedes.
Not sure my comments will change anything in terms of your purchase. I do think Fisker is a remarkable company but even I'm not sure I personally want any hybrid in my garage. That said, at this point the Karma is the only one I would consider.
In terms of the company, they have great investors (Kleiner and NEA), a great BOD (Vic Doolan) and a world class management team. Most of their dealers own other high line dealers. This is why I think they will get the bugs worked out, given enough time. Remember, they've built a company and a car from scratch faster than GM could build the Volt.
Their loan from the DOE helped finance the purchase of the Boxwood plant from GM in Delaware which is where the next car called Nina will be built. I have seen the Nina and think the value proposition on the car will be better than the Karma. Lower cost (50-60k), BMW motor and possibly many other BMW parts including 5 series chassis, and good, if not better styling than the Karma. While GM had spent over $500m on Boxwood, Fisker only paid $20m. So they will have US based manufacturing and at a discounted set up cost.
Lastly, I see Henrik from time to time and up until about 2 months ago he was always driving a V12 Vantage. I know the manufacturing team has also spent a lot of time in Germany. So I think the target is to inspire like Aston and manufacture like BMW/Mercedes.
Not sure my comments will change anything in terms of your purchase. I do think Fisker is a remarkable company but even I'm not sure I personally want any hybrid in my garage. That said, at this point the Karma is the only one I would consider.
Last edited by termsheet; Dec 26, 2011 at 02:57 PM.
Option 4 would be mine too. Get the big money from the Fisker dealer , get the 7500 dollars, get the car... Lease the Fisker for 1 year (shortest term possible) so you know how much you will get back and you have a great (hopefully) down payment for the new 991 Turbo... It's soo nice when a plan comes together !! Good luck!!
Here is something that doesn't go in favor of the Fisker. They are recalling and saying they need to replace battery packs in over 200 of them.
http://www.engadget.com/2012/01/01/f...-their-batter/
http://www.engadget.com/2012/01/01/f...-their-batter/
Did you really expect this to be a clear-sailing introduction?? Just wait.. Tis is the first time that Fisker is building the stuff himself and does not rely on the BMW ( one of the best engineered platforms). He is going to have all kind of trouble... Including a horrible customer support service... no parts... no knowledge.... no nothing... Good luck with your support... it's your bank account that will support and pay for the boo-boo's..
Did you really expect this to be a clear-sailing introduction?? Just wait.. Tis is the first time that Fisker is building the stuff himself and does not rely on the BMW ( one of the best engineered platforms). He is going to have all kind of trouble... Including a horrible customer support service... no parts... no knowledge.... no nothing... Good luck with your support... it's your bank account that will support and pay for the boo-boo's..
This is the answer. Personally, I think the Karma looks hideous and at 120k, you're entering low mileage 997.2 GT3/RS, decent mileage F430 territory. There are ton of other proven vehicles in this price range. But to each his own, and I would love to see one of these properly done up.
Probably the silliest thread I've ever seen. Nobody who can afford a Fisker is going to waste time "deliberating" the decision over a forum. Sorry, it's either a do or a don't and it isn't a purchase to be made by a child....only a child would ask such a silly question on the internet to see what other's would say. Send us a picture when you get it.



