I run yellow all around. The car stops FAST. No fading and they aren't too hard on the rotors.

 

if you are still in green group with your DEs I would take your winter 18" rims and put on them 235/275 or 235/285 tires like z1 star specs or hankooks r-s3. do not change car, drive it as it is and get used to understeer feel with unstable ***.

as you will progress further you can get into wider rims like most of people use (9" front 12" rear wide 18" rims), get gt3 LCAs to increase camber, pagid yellow pads, etc - search for track mods. Then you can put on R888 or RA1 toyos - R88* are usually run in 255/315 or 255/305, RA1 tires - 245/305 or 245/335, it really depends of tire brand what size fits your rims. with Kumho V700 I used 265/335. R888 set is in 255/315.

So, all those mods will improve your base level of grip and car stability. it will not change car`s behavior much when it starts to slide. that is why beginning with street tires and less camber is better for you as it teaches you a lot how to handle car when it starts sliding sideways. do a lot of AX events too to get that feel of when car looses it and how to control it.

buy some books - 'speed secrets: prof. race driving techniques part 1 ' and vic elford`s 'porsche high-performance driving handbook, edition 2' are what I like the best.

PS. what I say here essentially - you need to learn how to properly use threshold braking and throttle steering and how to 'listen' and feel your tires when they come to the limit of grip. it is easier to do with less sticky tires. stickier tires in the beginning do not let you learn new techniques - you just do same street kind of driving on a track with increased grip and it leads nowhere. if you know you can do throttle steering well, can control tires slip angle in a sweeper having all 4 contact patches slide in perfectly controlled manner then you get to stickier tires. all those tecniques remain same but with r-comps you get much smaller threshold for mistake. then from r-comps you go to R6/A6 hoosiers or racing slicks. all thos tires will dictate certain changes to suspension and tuning. do not rush up things too much, but do not delay neither. you`ll feel yourself when it`s time, usually as you will start outrunning your competitors.

 

Utkinpol and others, thanks for the helpful insights. I've been reading the past threads on LCA's etc. and they are good but also raise some more questions (e.g., can I even run those on my AWD model -- they seem to be for 2WD?)

Putting aside any actual suspension mods for the time being, for now, with my OEM setup, is it worth going from the stock alignment to a hybrid street/track one? For my 4S, will it be a noticeable change in 1. performance and 2. tire wear?

Thanks again -- it's great to have independent advice from the experienced guys on this board.

I'll also say something else. If I had to do it again with my new knowledge and track appetite, I might have saved some of the money I spent on a plenum and CAI and redirected that towards the suspension -- newbies take heed!

 

If you plan to do any DE events I would do the street/track alignment that I mentioned.
The car performs better on both road and track. The tires wear better on the track and I haven't seen any negative wear patterns on the street.

I received good advice from my first DE instructor. The 997 is faster and more capable than most of the other Porsches at DE events. You don't need to make it go any faster. Learn to drive it and then begin to think about alignment, brakes, suspension. That's where the performance gains will happen.

 

alignment costs just $150 - you should definitely get it done, it is first and foremost thing to do. if you have all stock parts it is just an alignemnt - max negative camber in front (-1 degree or so), -1.5 degrees in rear, 0.02 toe in front, 0.10 toe in rear.

it will reduce tire wear as you get less toe, front axle will be more reactive and overall car will feel 'better' but will require more attention to steering wheel on a highway.

in stock car comes with a lot of toe to 'improve' stability on public roads - and it literally shreds tires on a track.

 

Certainly do the track alignment as utkinpol states. However in time you will outdrive the track alignment possible with a stock system.

With your S model and PASM maybe a little later in your experience learning curve as opposed to someone like me who drives a base. But as you progress it will happen.

I am not the expert others are here but I believe you should be able to do the LCA's even on a C4S. These will give you great flexibility of adding negative chamber. This is a nice first step for suspension mods on the track.

 

I agree with your instructor. In most cases it the driver who will run out of talent before a 997 runs out of performance.

But there comes a time (and that may be after several years of HPDE events) where you have to look at the feedback of your car and make some adjustments as a way not only to improve performance but to save money in the long run.

As the tone of this thread suggests I agree that suspension upgrades are the way to go for 997 owners at first. The 997 has enough power.

 

Regading OZ Alleggerita HLT in 18", are you using 8.5 x 18 and 11 x 18? Any problem with running 245/305 on the OZ? I read here in the forum, that most of recommendation for the wheel size is 9 x 18 and 12 x18. Anyone has any input with "8.5 x 18 and 11 x 18" vs "9 x 18 and 12 x18". Thanks.

 

it is an interesting topic.
you also need to take to consideration an annoying fact that selection of wide r-comp rubber in 18" wide sizes is not that great anymore. as stock GT3 rims went into 19" we do not really have a lot of choices and imho it may be less every year.

rims width is an essential part as you want tire contact patch to be as wide a possible as as flat as possible. 9" wide front is a max that stock NB car fenders allow to fit there, when you get GT3 LCAs and more than -2 degrees of camber. I am not sure if it will not rub on a stock car with -1 degree camber, so be careful about that. 8.5" wide OZ fits fine on stock car.

if you intend to run 245/305 tires (which will be available always) then you will be fine with 8.5/11" rims. to fit 255 or 265 tire in fronts you need 9" wheel.
then - 315 tires goes on 11.5" rims, 335 tire goes on 12" rims. people put 305 tire on 12" rim to make side walls stiffer as tire 'expands' to fit into bigger rim. at AX i tryed both and found that 335 tire still has better grip at low AX speeds. but 335 tire is much heavier than 305 tire and on track you want tires/wheels light to improve acceleration, so it is always a compromise. overall common sizes to run are: 245/305, 255/315, 265/335. 255/335, 245/335, 255/305 combinations are also possible but you will need to look at tire diameters to check if rear will be kept about of inch staggered compared to front.
then as you decided on what tires you want to run, from what brand - you look at what rims will fit it best. or just get 9/12 and fit on them whatever you got.

 

I have 18x8.5 and 18x11 and I run 245/305 with no issues. Wider rims are marginally heavier, so I do not see any reason to go wider than what you expect to run for tires.

Utkinpol raises good points about sizing: it is not just about the size of the rim itself, but also about the settings you want to run. As it may be possible to fit a little wider rubber with rolled fenders and a lot of camber, it may not be possible on your car to go to extreme sizes. ABS, camber, spaces, fenders, etc. are all variables to consider, just for fitment.

Once you have looked at what can physically fit, you also have to look at all the resulting contact patches and understand the impacts. For example, if you go to a F245/30/18 and R305/30R18 combination instead of the factory recommended F235/35/19 and R305/30R19 it will give you about the same contact patch in the rear but, in the front, because the section width on the 245 is about 0.5" wider, you will actually get a larger contact patch than the OE tires. This will translate into a little bit more grip up front, and will affect the behavior of the car. This may be good or bad depending on what you want to do but my point is that, as you venture away from the recommended settings, there are possible impacts. At the extreme, changing from safe understeer to drastic oversteer may have consequences...

Personally, I found it simpler to stay close to the OE sizes since I am probably running out of talent anyway... Tire cost was more the reason for moving to a track setup for me.

T.

 

To utkinpol's previous point, I think that when you start, you want to amplify your mistakes so you can start recognizing what the car is telling you and, the slower you need to go for that to happen, the safer for everyone. IMHO, that is why people who start by doing auto-X before tackling the track end up progressing faster on the track.

BTW, I found it easier to start learning without PASM being in "Sport" mode as it allowed me to feel the change in weight distribution better. That being said, if you have Sport Chrono, you still may want to enable the faster throttle response though, as the rampup//delay built into the standard throttle mode was very annoying for me.

Learning about oversteer in a blind off-camber downhill sweeper after a crest doing 140 mph is not a good feeling at all...

T.

 

another point of reference - look at what wheels and tire sizes pro teams run on cup cars. they usually have 10" rim in front, 12" rear, sizing of racing slicks goes by actual tire width in mm and to translate it into DOT you will need to look at actual tire charts as it is not all the time 1:1 match.
anyway, it is typical to see something like 250/650/18 frnt (R80) and 280/680/18 rear (R100) slicks used by pros - they do not put too wide rubber in rear. but pros do not drive cars like most amateurs do, they run close to 10/10 traction so for them is critical to have close to ideal balance when car slides predictably on all 4 contact patches. still it gives some food for thought of what you want to keep your setup close to.

 

I have 8.5x18 and 11x18 OZ with 245/305 Toyo R888.
The wheel width is right in line with Toyo's recommendation for this tire size.

These, plus the suspension set up I mentioned is perfect for me. No problems and lots of fun.

 

What offsets are you guys running for the 11"x18" and the 12"x18"?

The OZ I believe is 63mm in an 11x18. monojohn, you said you run the 11x18 and an R888 305/35 and clear the rear? I ask b/c I have some R888 that are rubbing and I need to get the offset adjusted.

As a side note, I'm pretty low and I'm at -1.5 front, -2.1 rear and I get pretty good wear. The street does cause the inside rears to wear but I'm a little heavy in the foot.

 

I don't have any rubbing with 245/305 R888.
My OZ wheels are 18x8.5 ET53 and 18x11 ET63.
My camber is about -1.0/-1.5.
My car is at standard height.

Perhaps the lower car is the issue.
Sorry, but I'm not sure how to help beyond that.
Let us know how you solve the problem. Good luck.