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Please teach me how to drive my new 911

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Old Jul 11, 2011 | 01:25 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Steamboat
Spinning and loss of control is really about the tires losing adhesion with the pavement and the driver (or PSM) being unable to adequately compensate quickly enough. At speed, on the track, the car should be in a controlled slide in most corners conditions permitting. The deflection between the tire's intended path and the car's actual path is called the slip angle and there is an optimal angle to achieve optimal speed. Also, in many tight corners the quickest way through them is to turn in hard enough and apply enough throttle to induce some oversteer to rotate (slide) the back end around towards the new intended direction. If you can unwind the steering wheel smoothly enough and keep the car well balanced it works out fine. If you don't, a spin or a tank slapper may result. Ross Bentley takes 23 pages to explain these dynamics in his book Speed Secrets so I'll leave it at that. There's a fine line between being reckless and being accomplished.
I guess Ross Bentley and Vic Elford disagree. Smoothness is the name of the game. Staying at the limit of adhesion without sliding is more efficient. Jim Clark (or was it Stirling Moss?) used to say that while you slide you are not making progress forward.
 

Last edited by adias; Jul 11, 2011 at 01:38 PM.
Old Jul 11, 2011 | 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by adias
I guess Ross Bentley and Vic Elford disagree. Smoothness is the name of the game. Staying at the limit of adhesion without sliding is more efficient. Jim Clark (or was it Stirling Moss?) used to say that while you slide you are not making progress forward.
Your car always slides a little in a turn.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slip_angle

Here is a video of a Mini Cooper following me, the gray 911, at a DE event (my first DE). When I exit a turn, I am unwhining the wheel a tiny little bit while ease on the throttle. It is scary at first. Your car is sliding out, and you have slight understeer. The natural reaction is to lift off the throttle, but you're suppose to ease-in the throttle, and eventually your sideways momentum ends.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0A21SmsvQyc

This is after a day and a half of instruction. My first few sessions were..... very ugly. haha
 
Old Jul 11, 2011 | 02:38 PM
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I just orderd the porsche high performance hand book
 
Old Jul 11, 2011 | 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by texas355
Your car always slides a little in a turn.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slip_angle

Here is a video of a Mini Cooper following me, the gray 911, at a DE event (my first DE). ...
What's the point of the video? Your car is so far ahead that there are no driving dynamics to be seen.

Just a question: Why didn't you take the banked turn? Is it restricted?
 
Old Jul 11, 2011 | 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by carrera997re
I just orderd the porsche high performance hand book
Read it with an open mind. Some criticize it as being a storyteller-type-book. I disagree. Elford relates his racing experience and puts things in perspective. The technique he teaches is simple, to the point, and it works.

Many other 'racing' books have a lot of 'engineering' diagrams and stuff but miss on the core of the matter. Elford works for me.
 
Old Jul 11, 2011 | 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by carrera997re
I just orderd the porsche high performance hand book
Read it with an open mind. Some criticize it as being a storyteller-type-book. I disagree. Elford relates his racing experience and puts things in perspective. The technique he teaches is simple, to the point, and it works.

Many other 'racing' books have a lot of 'engineering' diagrams and stuff but miss on the core of the matter. Elford works for me.

Good to know i guess i will find out
 
Old Jul 11, 2011 | 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by adias
What's the point of the video? Your car is so far ahead that there are no driving dynamics to be seen.

Just a question: Why didn't you take the banked turn? Is it restricted?
You can see how I brake hard into turns, and how I track out. You cant see that I am getting understeer, but I am telling you I am and accelerating anyway. *Shrug*, maybe its only useful to me bc I remember what was going on and how it felt.

Yeah, the banked turn is the oval, which is closed off.
 
Old Jul 11, 2011 | 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by carrera997re
Good to know i guess i will find out
Let me know what you think. I use it as a reference book and re-read sections periodically.
 
Old Jul 11, 2011 | 04:00 PM
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The Speed Series books 1 and 2 are much more informative than the Elford book.

In suggest you read them all.

Smooth is fast no doubt. But there's allot in the Speed Series books about being smooth and keeping the car balanced. They are not all about drifting.
 
Old Jul 11, 2011 | 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by carrera997re
I just orderd the porsche high performance hand book
vic elford's? cancel it. it's useless. you can have my copy.
 
Old Jul 11, 2011 | 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by KonaKai
vic elford's? cancel it. it's useless. you can have my copy.
ROTFLMAO, That's harsh (but kinda true)!! Some of his stories are sort of interesting though.........
 
Old Jul 11, 2011 | 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by KonaKai
vic elford's? cancel it. it's useless. you can have my copy.
I was trying to be nice but Lee you cut right to the chase.
 
Old Jul 11, 2011 | 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by adias
I guess Ross Bentley and Vic Elford disagree. Smoothness is the name of the game. Staying at the limit of adhesion without sliding is more efficient. Jim Clark (or was it Stirling Moss?) used to say that while you slide you are not making progress forward.
Ross Bentley is not for sliding. If I recall he states it looks cool but slows you down.

He's about balance and it has to do with how you work the pedals as well as how you turn the wheel.

Its not a very technical read at all.
 
Old Jul 11, 2011 | 05:04 PM
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Ahhhh crap u guys serious there goes 20 bucks lol my g/f orderd it on amazon today is it too late to cancel?? Ahh man i was looking foward to it too
 
Old Jul 11, 2011 | 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by carrera997re
Ahhhh crap u guys serious there goes 20 bucks lol my g/f orderd it on amazon today is it too late to cancel?? Ahh man i was looking foward to it too

It's not a bad book but there are better books for learning about driving. Start there, absorb, apply and then move to another.
 


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