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To the new 991 owners: don't treat an aesthetic discuss as an attack on the engineering of the 991 nor your purchase decision. Time marches on at Porsche. That said the image says more than all the words :
Originally Posted by 808c2s
Apples to apples, yes! The 997S' rear end appears to have more character/personality than the 991S.
YNOT : to me, I got a tactile 911 for that feeling, the pebbles, leaves and tarmac is why the pcar is in my life. The BMW's (one w/ elec. steer, one w/o) sitting in front of the c4s; these provide me with that fatty, non-sensuous feeling of just getting around. There are plenty of alternatives to a pcar w/o that steering feel.
The bottom line for me as a weekend user, I want my 911 to feel like a Go-kart. I want the harder steering, road feel, noise, etc. If I want quietness and comfort, I use my wife's Infinity JX 35.
YNOT : to me, I got a tactile 911 for that feeling, the pebbles, leaves and tarmac is why the pcar is in my life. The BMW's (one w/ elec. steer, one w/o) sitting in front of the c4s; these provide me with that fatty, non-sensuous feeling of just getting around. There are plenty of alternatives to a pcar w/o that steering feel.
My 997 steering feels loose compared to my 981's electric steering, when I get out of my 981 and into a 997, it no longer feels like sports car, more of a sports sedan. The tighter feel, heavy steering, and the stiffer chassis of the 981 feels a lot better. When I press the sports button on the 997, it feels a little stiffer and tighter but not as good as the 981 in normal mode. You really have to drive it back to back to notice. I understand the visceral feeling of an air cooled 911, it's what got me into the Porsche brand. It's inevitable, Porsche gets better with time.
Ynot, something must be wrong with your 997 steering. I read somewhere that porsche admits it got the hydraulic steering perfect with the 997.2. It is the benchmark.
The bottom line for me as a weekend user, I want my 911 to feel like a Go-kart. I want the harder steering, road feel, noise, etc. If I want quietness and comfort, I use my wife's Infinity JX 35.
Werd!
Spent the weekend at Porsche Palooza in Arkansas. Following and passing and running with all era's of 911. I just don't feel the 911 "soul" when I see a 991. No doubt, the Turbo S and all the 991's are bad *** performers, but again, if I was just after speed a 5.0 Mustang with a procharger would fill the bill for $100k less. I'm sure the same was said about the 996, 997, etc. Even someone on this thread doesn't care for the 997.2...I get that. But the 991 is a real departure and certainly more in line with Nissan GTR than a 997. Again, I get it, that's "progress". But IMO Porsche is losing the soul of what made the 911 a great car...curvy body lines, german interior with thicker quality leather, road feel, raw engine noises and MANUAL transmissions. Perhaps they'll redeem themselves with the next go around (like they did with the 996 to 997) and bring back what we all want from a styling perspective. The rave reviews coming in about the Cayman GTS is encouraging. But who ever grew up dreaming of owning a Cayman?? Again, it's not a slam on the Cayman, they're a blast to drive and rail corners like a 911 cannot. But...in the end they're not a 911.
Ynot, something must be wrong with your 997 steering. I read somewhere that porsche admits it got the hydraulic steering perfect with the 997.2. It is the benchmark.
Nothing wrong with mine, I've driven another 997 and it feels the same. I haven't driven a 997.2 for comparison. I've driven 991's on multiple occasions. The steering feel every car journalist talks about, it's the extra feedback through the steering wheel. This extra feedback is also the extra vibration and loose feeling you get with hydraulic steering compared to electric. I like the heavier and stiffer feel w/o all the extra feeling that is not necessary on a road car.
Originally Posted by Wheeler
The rave reviews coming in about the Cayman GTS is encouraging. But who ever grew up dreaming of owning a Cayman?? Again, it's not a slam on the Cayman, they're a blast to drive and rail corners like a 911 cannot. But...in the end they're not a 911.
Congratulations Porsche marketing! They did a wonderful job, even last year at the Porsche road show, everyone agreed that the Cayman felt better but most would take the C4S b/c it has prestige that the Cayman does not. I haven't driven a GTS yet but I have a 981 Boxster and I've driven both the base Cayman and S, they are great driver's cars for those who can look beyond the iconic status of a 911. I agree the 991 has gotten too big, actually the 997 is quite big compared to the air cooled 911's.
Nothing wrong with mine, I've driven another 997 and it feels the same. I haven't driven a 997.2 for comparison. I've driven 991's on multiple occasions. The steering feel every car journalist talks about, it's the extra feedback through the steering wheel. This extra feedback is also the extra vibration and loose feeling you get with hydraulic steering compared to electric. I like the heavier and stiffer feel w/o all the extra feeling that is not necessary on a road car.
I think it's probably a matter of preference then. You're right about the missing "extra vibration" from the 981/991 steering. Personally, I want to feel the texture of the road, and I want the wheels to push back a little against me. When this extra vibration information is missing, some people (such as myself) interpret that as "numb." Other people don't miss it at all.
Now with regard to the heavier/stiffer feel, I'm going to have to disagree on this one. Having experienced the electric steering of the Panamera, Cayenne, and Cayman, each for several weeks, my impression was that the force required to rotate the steering wheels is far less on these cars than on my 997.2. It's especially evident at low speeds, when you could almost steering the car with the tip of your finger, whereas you still need to use a full grip on the 997. Are you sure something isn't wrong with your 997?
The bottom line for me as a weekend user, I want my 911 to feel like a Go-kart. I want the harder steering, road feel, noise, etc. If I want quietness and comfort, I use my wife's Infinity JX 35.
I know right? Why not just get a Mercedes for a smooth ride?
Spent the weekend at Porsche Palooza in Arkansas. Following and passing and running with all era's of 911. I just don't feel the 911 "soul" when I see a 991. No doubt, the Turbo S and all the 991's are bad *** performers, but again, if I was just after speed a 5.0 Mustang with a procharger would fill the bill for $100k less. I'm sure the same was said about the 996, 997, etc. Even someone on this thread doesn't care for the 997.2...I get that. But the 991 is a real departure and certainly more in line with Nissan GTR than a 997. Again, I get it, that's "progress". But IMO Porsche is losing the soul of what made the 911 a great car...curvy body lines, german interior with thicker quality leather, road feel, raw engine noises and MANUAL transmissions. Perhaps they'll redeem themselves with the next go around (like they did with the 996 to 997) and bring back what we all want from a styling perspective. The rave reviews coming in about the Cayman GTS is encouraging. But who ever grew up dreaming of owning a Cayman?? Again, it's not a slam on the Cayman, they're a blast to drive and rail corners like a 911 cannot. But...in the end they're not a 911.
The Cayman has impressive reviews and an amazing price point. But in the end, it doesn't really look like a Porsche. Could be mistaken for a mini Ferrari or modified Miata. Like you say, it's a Cayman. Which is a reason why I didn't go with Cabriolet or Targa because it's not Carrera which is iconic.
I considered the 991 GT3 front, but eventually found an OEM 997.2 GT3 front bumper, so Im going with that instead.
BTW, I have a pair of the 991 turn signal/DRLs for sale, if anyone needs them for the conversion. They are in perfect condition, and Ill take pics for anyone interested.
I think the perfect Daily 911 is the 997.2 GTS.
I don't care for the steering on the 991. I like to feel every pebble.
I hate the rear of the 991. The counter sunk taillights don't look right to me. The size of the taillights is too small in relations to size of the rear bumper of the car. They just kind of get lost (I do like the LED treatment).
The rear horizontal line breaks up the cars historic smooth flow.
The side view mirrors, why for the love of all that is Holy would they stick them to the side of the door. It doesn't look right
One of the worst things they did was take the rear deck lid and cut it into the rear wheel arches. The 911 has always had a squarish engine cover that never cut into the rear fenders now they did this. I know when I wash my car one of my favorite lines is from the roof down the thin C pillar over the fenders and onto the lights. It's fluid. Now there is a great big slash in that
I like the more purpose built interior of the 997. The interior of the 991 is from a panamera, which I love in that vehicle. Just not sports car enough for me.
If my choice was any 997 GT3 or GTS or a new 991, I would choose the 997 variant every time.
Here is the rear trunk line. It has never cut into the rear fender. May be the most iconic part of the 911 series- the hips- now have a line across them. It's like a C- Section scar. Won't necesarily ruin the final product but sure wish it wasn't there.
then this:
Horrid when opened:
Why was it necessary? Aftermarket wings will be goofy looking and it takes away from 50 years of design
They did a wonderful job, even last year at the Porsche road show, everyone agreed that the Cayman felt better but most would take the C4S b/c it has prestige that the Cayman does not. I haven't driven a GTS yet but I have a 981 Boxster and I've driven both the base Cayman and S, they are great driver's cars for those who can look beyond the iconic status of a 911. I agree the 991 has gotten too big, actually the 997 is quite big compared to the air cooled 911's.
