AM's are indeed initially overpriced, so anyone paying sticker is in for a MAJOR hurting in year 1-2. After that it becomes similar to any other high-end car for the next few years and then becomes better than most as there are fewer of them. In selling my DB9, which may close tomorrow, my cost of ownership from new will end up being more along the lines of a car with a MUCH lower MSRP than the almost 180 of the initial sticker. The only reason that worked out that way was because I bought it very right. There are other cars that fall off a lot too. Any high-dollar M-B and Bentley seems to also fall far fast. If resale in less than 5 years is going to matter, you had better be careful in buying ANY new AM.

 

All good observations. That's one reason (the other being price) I bought both of my AMs used. Let the other guy take the first 2 to 3 year hit. Even if I could afford one 'from new', I wouldn't because of that very steep initlal depreciation.

 

Yeah, most do prefer it. It's techier than the Fezza though. I'd take the Macca though because I prefer its cerebral nature to the overt personality of the Ferrari. I'm more of a substance over style kinda guy (don't ask me why I'm always lurking in the Aston forum then). Both great cars, both way out of my reach

 

Wow. You're going to have to explain that one to me! The only similarity I see it a turbo v-8. And both engines are entirely different in construction. The Mclaren is a carbon tubbed, bespoke supercar that outperforms (after it's pre-release update) the 458. Regardless of whether it's a better car, it has brought a whole raft of previously-unseen tech to the table. No doubt if Porsche wanted to build a 458-fighter (which it is planning to do), it would also be a great car, but the Panamera's raison d'etre is something entirely different!!

 

The McLaren is impressive, but I can't say that it's pretty . . . or even cool looking. I couldn't see buying one even if I had the money.

 

Well, it may not be as pornographic as the Ferrari, but in the right colour, I think it looks cool. But a lot of people are underwhelmed by the looks, so you're not alone.


*credit to Amarok from Mclarenlife

 

I hadn't even taken note of the turbo v-8, but yeah that's another similarity.

Both cars have similar hp ratings 550/600 respectively, similar tested 0-60's 3.5/3.1, both are considered the "ugly ducklings" for their class, both are comfortable to ride in.

Realistically I don't know why anybody compares the MP4-12C to the 458. Just because they cost the same doesn't mean they are competitors. That's like comparing an Aston Martin V8 Vantage S to a Porsche Turbo S at a performance level. Turbo cars simply can't be compared to naturally aspirated engined cars because... well... performance wise, you can still turbo the NA cars and get more performance.

So really, you can compare the MP4-12C to the Porsche Turbo S, GT-R, ~ZR1, maybe throw in TT Gallardos etc.

 

The MP4-12C is not a competitor to the Panamera Turbo...that's absurd on so many levels.

The MP4-12C is a direct competitor to the 458. It doesn't matter if one has turbos and one doesn't. Since when is that a determiner of which cars are in the same competitive class?

 

if memory serves me correctly.. I've seen Panamera Turbo compared with Rapide and Quaddroporte S. Quite a difference in pricing and engine spec

 

Well, everybody has different criterion to what makes things a competitor to what. Everybody seems to compare the MP4-12C and the 458 but I think that's just because it's McLaren and Ferrari and their history in F1.

I mean you could do mid-engined vs rear/front, or 2WD vs 4WD, or price, or NA vs turbo, or 0-100 kph, or 0-300 kph. To me, if I'm looking for something with a very high level of ride comfort, and a turbo V8, I look at the MP4 and the Panamera.

 

I agree with XJRS as to the competition. If two cars are competing for the same potential buyers (and the MP4-12C and the 458 clearly are), they are competing cars, irrespective of engine aspiration.

 

Well, nobody I know who owns a 458 or wants to buy a 458, also wants an MP4-12C. The few that will buy one anyway, buy a lot of random cars anyway, so its hard to say if its specific to the 458.

To me, the MP4-12C seems like the logical upgrade to the typical Turbo S buyer. Somebody who doesn't mind turbos, prefers something comfortable and quiet, and wants the latest technology.

*The way I see things panning out, pretty much everybody has to have a Porsche. You simply can't live without one (assuming you're into exotics/sports cars). What if you want to be low-profile for the day, what if your exotic breaks down or is in the shop? So everybody starts with a Porsche, be it Cayenne, 911, or Panamera. Then you get an exotic. Ferrari or Lamborghini. If you were buying an Audi R8 or an Aston Martin or even a Bentley you might be able to use that to replace the Porsche, but if you have a Porsche, then the next step up is the Ferrari or Lambo. AFTER that, then you start looking at things like the MP4-12C. The only other path I see is if you own some other car (BMW/Audi/Mercedes) and instead of getting a Porsche you get the McLaren.

That's why I think it's a competitor to Porsche's lineup, less so Ferrari/Lamborghini. Completely different appeal.

 

That's not the point. The point is that both cars are in the really expensive bracket and provide similar levels of performance. Therefore, the two companies are going after the same customers with these cars. That some individuals will choose the 458 and some will choose the MP4-12C does not change this fact.

 

It's not about performance though. ALL of these cars provide very similar levels of performance (GT-R, Tesla, 458, Turbo including Cayenne/Panamera, FF, LP560, Aventador all are sub 4s cars). It's about the overall experience. The sound, the handling, the ride quality, everything.

The MP4-12C has substantially higher ride quality than any other sports car I know of, and it sounds substantially quieter. What cars have higher ride quality and quieter sound? Pretty much any Porsche Turbo (Cayenne, 911, or Panamera). All of these cars have the performance, and all can lap a track within a few seconds of each other. The vast majority of buyers probably wouldn't even be able get better lap times in one over another.

 

It isn't ALL about performance, but when we're talking about high-end sports cars, that's one of the biggest factor in determining which cars compete with which others.

For sports cars, price and performance levels pretty much dictate the field of competitors. The other factors you've mentioned such as aspiration, ride quality, sound are all things that will be factors that will determine which car of the field that the individual will select, but they don't define the field itself.