Hi Stuart.

A little story:

Several years ago I was introduced to my friend's father. He asked me what I did and I explained that I was an electrical and computer engineer. He replied that his granddaughter (who was only 5) was also "programming" computers like I was. Now I'm sure he didn't mean any disrespect by his comment, but his reply was a bit insulting when equating many years of engineering education at the undergraduate and graduate level and 20+ years of work experience to a 5-year old pointing and clicking on cute animated figures on a PC screen with a mouse.

Yes, the path to enlightenment may come in many ways, but the people you mention are in the pursuit of horsepower without regard for engineering practices that would make it in the OEM field in terms of reliability. The underground racing builders you refer to may do amazing work extracting every ounce of performance out of a car, but how many engines blow up in the process. If you're part of a racing team with a big enough budget, when that happens, you simply rebuild it and your off and running again. But consumers do not have the access to the parts, tools, or knowhow to rebuild it themselves every time this happens.

Anybody can do a some mods to bring out a few more horses from an engine. Doing it so that it performs reliably across thousands of engines each running for 100,000 miles or more is a different story. To claim that someone who doesn't have the education, training, experience, test equipment, etc. to do such development is just as good as the credentialed individual is not much less insulting than to say the 5-year old can do the same work that I do.

Just to be clear, I'm not offended by this discussion and wholeheartedly believe your intent is not seeded in disrespect any more than my friend's father's comments were. I just wanted to state my point of view.

Cheers.

 

Don't worry I'm not offended either, all in good spirit. However, I think that your analogy is perhaps a little unfair. To compare a programming professional and a 5 year old is not really the same as to compare professionals from the same field who have not necessarily followed the same path.

The reason I mentioned Underground is because (other than the fact that they sell our Lambo body parts) they are an independent example on the performance front. The forced induction conversions I was referring to aren't professional drag racing builds, rather they are street usable builds with as far as I'm aware, into the hundreds now running around all over the world.

Anyway, the reason I feel the need to participate in this discussion is because I feel there is somewhat of a conflict of interest. I'm not here to question anyone's credentials, but regardless of credentials, everyone has a vested interest in selling their own products and their voiced opinions will probably reflect that.


ETA - Just for the record, I'm not too hot on the idea of changing the harmonic damper/pulley. Drivetrain losses are achievable elsewhere, I think the clutch/flywheel is a much better place to start.

 

.... WOW

With newer 4.7s already coming down so much in price, the gap in price between the two models is barely that much, not to mention you would have a newer car with alot less depreciation. Might as well just sell the 4.3 and get a 4.7L vantage (or even the new Vantage S for that kind of money).

Did not know that, thanks for the heads up.

Stuart - with what you referred to earlier, I am actually glad your firm is producing a lightweight flywheel & clutch setups (the community is in desperate need of one). I am merely implying that by doing everything you possibly can you will improve the performance of the vehicle just that much more.

The absolute best scenario is: Lightweight pulley, Lightweight clutch & flywheel setup, lightweight brake rotors (a must on any vantage), and lightweight wheels & tires setup. If you were to spend money anywhere it should be on these key components. exhaust is great and it def helped, but only on top end. The ECU upgrade is also great, but for those wanting to just stick with hardware mods, those should all be top on your list.

hope that helps,
007

 

WOW is right. Guys, how about speaking about what you can validate rather than what you think. 007, no one piled on your tuner in Houston when you were getting your work done, and you didn't bandy his prices about. Why not show the same courtesy? The guy in question can't defend himself here, and he tried to answer everyone's questions when they asked. Give him a break. We're not 9 year olds talking behind some kid's back. Just to set the record straight, I will make a couple of corrections to your assumptions that can be easily verified if you and others take the time. What a couple of you fail to point out in your jabs is that the work in question for $20K is what you would call a "gold plated teardown" that throws out 475hp, has been documented beating a v12 Vantage and has been durability tested on the track by beating Aston Martin Racing (and many others) and medaling. It is an engine rebuild. The torque and speed came from components designed in-house, including a new header, lightweight flywheel and clutch and other engine parts. Half of the package alone beats a Vantage S for $6K. So, the "get a 4.7" doesn't really apply.

Unless you are willing to look at the dynos and watch the videos of bigger Vantages getting spanked, I would suggest that you speak about what you know. Should make for shorter conversations.

He Who Shall Not Be Named will be here soon enough, as a Sponsor, to walk the walk.

 

If I understand you correctly, you're making accusations that people are not sticking to the facts? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Here are the things which I have pointed out in this discussion. 1.) The cost of an engine rebuild. That is a fact. 2.) That opinions on Aston mods, however well OEM educated, are still coming from someone who is trying to sell their own product and should not be considered unbiased. That is an opinion (mine.)

Since you are so keen on facts - "cats that don't measure up..." what are you talking about exactly? That doesn't sound like a fact to me that sounds like opinion. Based on what I'm not sure.

"Sourced from a catalog and re-packaged...." again, could you confirm what you're referring to here? Is that a fact? What products are you talking about here?

You opine so strongly that people should speak about what they can validate rather than what they think, and then you follow it up with a bunch of vague and veiled accusations leveled at whom exactly? It's exactly what happened when Mike started posting on here and other forums about "other companies" and the "emperor's new clothes" and yet chose to ally himself with Quicksilver, who used to claim a 20BHP increase from their exhaust system, while RSC was quietly quoting 5-7. I don't have any problem with people sticking to the facts and promoting their own products in a positive fashion rather than wading in making veiled threats and accusations.

I hate having to do this, I have always tried to keep things positive here because I feel that this is a great forum with a great bunch of people but it certainly seems to me like our company which I am very proud of has been under attack of late, and for no good reason other than there is a new kid on the block talking trash.

I stand behind all our products and I think our company's reputation for quality products and excellent customer service speaks volumes.

 

Stuart, I was not speaking to, or about, your company. I changed the post before reading your answer as I thought that it was too general a statement, and should have been more measured regarding other vendors. My apologies. There are companies out there that do not post their numbers. The reasons behind Mike aligning himself with Quicksilver is not something that I am privy to. My read of the tenor of Mike's previous posts was that there were companies that posted dubious claims, based on his specific knowledge of the engine, the company and the capabilities.

 

+1 Stuart, I stand by your statements. I agree with your statements that Mike is just bashing anything under the sun other than his own full engine rebuilds, it seems HIGHLY biased to say the least, not to mentioned he is being defended by somebody who has probably purchased one of those engine packages.

I think your flywheel & clutch package looks great and should be taken seriously as it looks like a great bit of kit. That in conjunction with 2-piece rear rotors (which you sell) should make a big difference. In fact, perhaps you should sell them in a package kit, I think that would be a great idea!

Going above and beyond that I think a lightweight pulley and lightweight wheels will also go a long way to improving performance of the vehicle (although its much harder to save more than 3-4lbs a wheel, its just not that easy).

Keep up the great work Stuart, your firm is still 10x more legitimate than fear mongering dungeons & dragons with horrifically broken English and highly unsubstantiated claims.

007

 

I am neither an owner of his engines, any of his products or a shareholder in his company. As a matter of fact, I do not yet own an Aston Martin car. What I AM is a believer in a fair fight, and your uninformed jabs at someone who is not on the forum would be beneath most people.

 

Thanks, much obliged, and sorry if I came on a bit strong myself. I know there are companies out there who will say and do anything to close a sale and we've always tried really hard not to be one of them, and to provide information as accurately and honestly as possible.

 

someone let me know when it's time for a group hug

 

It's time.........

 

How about a group trackday?

 

007, will you be performing this mod on your new (used) V8V? I'd love to hear how it goes!

 

Yes I will and I will do before-after dyno this time to see how much low end torque it will free up. Typically you get peak torque 1000rpm sooner with the lighter crank pullies, but for now will have to wait. High flow cats coming first.

 

What ever happened to that CRVETR guy?

Or 'theonethatdoes'....