After a bad wash and wax experience with a local business, my DBS had to undergo a complete surface rebase lining with old wax removal, paint clean and slight correction to get my Aston where it needs to be. Moral of this story, stick with your prime partnership(s), trusted agents even if it means driving far to get things done right and staying right...

2009 Aston Martin DBS fresh off the surface rebase lining, correction, cleaning and protection treatment.

 

 

god damn thats a hot ride

 

Thanx, my detail shop guy had this kit in his mini-fridge, set it out in the sun to soften the mix and applied by hand shortly after the wash, decontamination and clay bar = Secret to the DBS Success.

 

Sir, could you please elaborate what your bad wash and wax experience was so other members here can avoid the issues you ran into? This likely would help them a lot just knowing what to look for. Please be as detailed as you can so those who don't understand the process can understand it.

Can you explain what a "complete surface rebase lining" is? Not being smart here but what the heck is it? What do you mean by "paint clean and slight correction?

You sir, are ABSOLUTELY spot on with this statement. If you can't drive to a knowledgable person, ship your car to get this done right. In the end you will know its correct and that someone took care of your car better than you possibly would.
=09DBS;4765245
Yes your DB9 looks nice and clean in the pictures. It sounds like your detail guy washed the vehicle, clay barred the vehicle and then applied the wax. IF that is not correct, then some of the question I asked above will most likely clarify it better.

I have written several threads under "Special Vehicle Care 101" for members to know what to look for and how to go about taking car of their cars. Special Vehicle Care 101: Cleaning and Special Vehicle Care 101: Protectants

While those two threads are very informative they dont contain everything in depth. I am working on a Coatings and PPF thread to help people understand those products and how they work and protect.

Swissvax makes very good carnauba waxes which is what ONYX is. ONYX is however their least expensive wax with only 30% actual wax. There was most likely less than $10 worth of it applied. (that is not a terrible thing, carnauba wax goes a long way when applying, so an expensive jar can last years). Sometimes price doesn't make the difference between what looks good or great. There are many way overpriced carnauba waxes on the market. And again most people wouldn't know the difference between how they look either. Waxes start being spectacular products when the percentage contact starts over 50% of wax and there are many of them on the market, and many use terms that are misleading. So read up on the make-up of carnauba waxes and then start making decisions on what to buy or have used. Putting carnauba waxes in your fridge helps to keep it from melting under warm or hot conditions. I do that too for some bespoke waxes that I have.

However, these waxes are carnauba and they will only last 3-5 weeks on the paint depending on the environment. If the vehicle is in the warm sun alot then they can last only weeks. But if the vehicle is stored and the vehicle only sees daylight in warm temperatures once a month, carnauba waxes can last 6 months or so. (heat in garages also will melt the wax off the paint) If your not going to go with a silica based (ceramic named for marketing) coating, the putting a synthetic sealant on the paint, followed by a carnauba wax is the best route. (this will last 5-6 months for the synthetic waxes, and still only the 3-5 week for the carnauba wax)

Carnauba wax application--- the wax can be physically applied by your bare hands, by a foam or MF applicator pad, or by a polishing machine using a finishing pad. Any of these ways are fine and they each will produce the same results. It is possible though that by using your bare hands that you can mar areas of paint from the rough areas on your hands. (typically a concern only on finicky soft paint; blacks, dark blues etc...)

 

Right SheriffDep; thanks for investing a flattering amount of inquiry to this thread and I will try me best to address each section as requested. A few key corrections before we get underway.

The car is a DBS not a DB9 as you state in your inquiry; a key distinction within our world of Aston Martin models or as Jeremy Clarkson so comically explained it on an episode of Top Gear with the flair of Brit cheeky eccentric culture..."you cannot buy a DB9 anymore, you just cannot buy a DB9, for one day you will pull up next to this (DBS) and you will feel hopeless, inadequate and you will have to kill yourself." You can learn a lot about the DBS vs DB9 differences by investing in what I believe is one of the most recent modern enlightening reads on the subject; especially when it comes to inquiries and knowing the differences and commenting on our technically savvy forums:

"The Definitive Guide to the New Aston Martin (Gaydon) Era by Grant Neal."

alot is correctly spelled; a lot.


Right, my prime detailer gave me the option and I went for the SWISS VAX ONYX option since I keep my cars indoors in temperature controlled garage and drive the DBS at most 3-4 times a month.

I beg to differ on the MF applicator pad and call me more empathic but I prefer the bare hands direct human almost artistic interface (taking time and work the wax by feeling the surface contours of these glorious Aston's) approach my prime detailer applies. We both are followers of AMMO NYC (Larry Kosilla) and have learned so much of his clear, fastidious detailing techniques he uses on personal and customer base cars...I have included the YouTube tutorial link that even focuses on an Aston Martin that may shed a bit more clarity and contrary to your approach on utilizing a MF pad that I believe has way more inherent risks for wax application.


Thanks for the questions, very well and astute approach SheriffDep (we will learn from your response on posting more detail in future on here); let me know anymore detail I can provide and assist with for our collaborate and amazingly insightful data share community on here.

-Ricky

 

Sir,
Thanks for all your input to my questions. Yep typing error on the DB9 and DBS. You may not know what I have so I will post that at the end of this. There is likely only about 12 left in the world (per AM Gaydon) at this time.

Some of the terms you used in your original posting didn't make any sense to what you put in the same post later. Hence all my questions. I just wanted to know what got messed up, and what was done to correct this. This is a very common occurrence typically when someone goes to a production type detailer or price shops. Or just basically with bad luck and not knowing any better chooses someone who is working way above their knowledge and skill level. (PS your guy who you used to fix the work needs to fix his website links- they take you to a drug-pharmacy type phishing site)

I will try and help with some information so that you and members can decide themselves how they want to have their car's paint worked on. Full disclosure: I am a professional and one of the best in the country.

1. Larry Kosilla is a good friend of mine, so I am well aware of what he puts out and what is said in private conversations. (its is the same, just more in-depth sometimes)

2. "Slight Correction" - whenever you start talking correction in the detailing world that means "Paint Correction" which is a process by where you use a machine polisher and specific cutting and polishing pads with specific compounds and polishes to level the clear coat, and in the process removing any scratches or swirls. So a slight correction should mean the vehicle was gone over with a polish to remove light to medium marring scratches or swirls. (old school terms is using a rotary buffer and "cut and buff")

3. "rebase lining"-- had never heard of that term until you said it. Now it makes sense to what you meant by it. Basically removing all sealants and waxes from the surface so you are now down to bare clean clear coat. This is typically done using Dawn dish washing liquid (does'nt do anything but strip the paint of the waxes or oils from polishing liquids; you never want to use this for a normal vehicle wash, or your stripping the surface clean and leaving no protection), some type of Citrus based car wash shampoo (the citrus acids are what strips the surface, which are very mild and do what they are supposed to do), or just take Gyeon Prep, CarPro Eraser, or a 70/30 mix of water and isopropyl alcohol and spray and wipe down. When correcting a vehicle's paint by machine polishing this process is done multiple times so that your work can be checked by specific lighting to make sure the panel is perfect.

4. Carnauba wax or sealants being left in edges of panels or along paint protection film lines (PPF) is an extremely common occurrence. The best way to tackle this is to use SPRAY WAX, not spray detailer, onto an appropriate MF towel and work the edges so that you remove any residue. This is most commonly found with sealants rather than carnauba waxes; however, the less expensive carnauba waxes can cause this. Also, making the car work area completely dark, then using a flashlight and walk around the vehicle to see any wax residue left. Works perfectly that way.

5. Application of Caunauba wax - In Larry's video he talks about the slight possibility of something getting into the foam or mf application pad and marring the surface. Thus applying by hand helps to take that possibility and reduces it greatly. There are several factors you need to think about with this process. He says it in the video but I bet not many people catch the meaning. he applied SKIN first. That was applied with a foam applicator then removed by the mf towels. (so the same issue can happen there, but you can't put sealant on by physical hands). In reality there was no reason other than informative to apply that way to any vehicle. There is a much much larger chance that the mf towel will have a piece of embedded dirt particle or leaf particle in it and will cause micro marring 1k times easier. (What Larry intended in that video is a vehicle where nothing but a wash on a rare car was done (or showroom or car show vehicle) then the carnauba was applied by hand.) The other reason has to do with temperature of the panels and getting a complete application. In a climate controlled facility this is not a factor, and by using a, for example Rupes or Griot's Garage 3" polishing machine with a no cut finishing pad and applying the sealant and a carnauba wax there is no risk to marring, you get the same uniform coverage, and it takes 15 min rather than hours. In the end its however you want to do this, I am just telling you its unnecessary to do so, unless its a rare car or collector car that never sees daylight. There are way to many other ways to marr the surface that are much more important starting with microfiber towel care.

6. You said you drive the DBS 3-4 times a month. If this is done, the carnauba wax (no matter if its the entry level wax (ONYX) or the best in the world) likely is only lasting you 1 month for protecting your paint. Carnauba wax gives a deep hue type of shine, which is typically done the night before a car show or special event, and doesn't last hardly at all. The oils used, which make the carnauba able to be applied, and the wax itself melt with any type of heat or sunlight. Even if the water still beads, that protection is gone. Now if you apply monthly, then there is no issue with protection. That is why a synthetic sealant is typically applied before the carnauba so you have 4-6 months of protection depending the environment. The new technological approach to this is silica based coatings ie.....Ceramic, Glass, Quartz. There all the same but the formulas differ greatly as the cost does also for the best ones. 22ple, Kamikaze, Modesta are the top three in the world at this time. You actually get more quality in the coating from 22ple and Kamikaze, they just don't advertise like Modesta does. They last years with proper maintenance and have extremely higher gloss levels. Same for PPF applications. 3M Pro is made by 3M completely and they are the only ones who do that and they hold the patent on the process. Suntek, Xpel, S-TEK, and others all get their films from the exact same manufacturer. However, each of those companies uses different glues and top coats which are proprietary to them. S-TEK is the leading PPF company right now and their films are the absolute clearest on the market and have the best hydrophobic top layer to provide longevity.

7. Claying a vehicle -- There are two types of decontamination that should be done. One is surface and the other is embedded. Claying, whether using a clay bar, nano skin mitt or towel, or a clay synthetic block removes embedded contaminants while using a product such as AMMO Plum or CarPro Iron-x, or Gyeon Iron removes surface contaminants-Iron. Using the Iron removal products is something that only needs to be done once a year, and maybe 3-4 times a year on wheels. It is liquid so there is no marring or scratching.

Claying--- this most likely is something that can be done once a year, once every 2-4 years. It all depends on how the vehicle is driven and stored. A garage queen likely only needs it every 3-4 years. However, claying with ANY TYPE of the clay products WILL MARR the surface. This does not mean that everywhere there will be micro scratches, it just means that the physical removal of particles dragged across the surface while embedded in the clay bar will cause marring. Period. So Clay Barring a vehicle should only be done when a PAINT CORRECTION is being done afterward. That will remove any of that marring. So a vehicle that gets washed, clay barred, then waxed is the absolute wrong way to do things, and a customer should be told WHY. Does it happen? This happens all the time, every day, and most customers have no clue and will have absolutely no idea of how the process worked. I have heard many detailers say claying won't scratch, it does and there is no scientific way around it. So having your vehicle clayed, then having a wax physically applied by hand is a complete waste. The clay bar did way more damage than a speck of dust particle on a foam pad could ever cause. Just so that everyone understands.

8. MF Towels--- there are so many on the market that it almost takes an education to figure out which to use and how to take care of them. ALOT of detailers throw towels into a washing machine and use Tide or similar, then throw into a dryer and quickly on hot dry them. WRONG. Normal washing detergents leave particles in the towels which can scratch and interfere with products being applied and if you dry them on anything higher then LOW, then you are melting the microscopic ends of each MF which renders them damaged. Now there is the types, low pile, edgeless, furry types, waffle weaves etc..... Each has its own reason why they are made that way. But, if you are drying your vehcile with anything OTHER than a specific MF drying towel or a drying blower made for cars you are drying it wrong, and are causing even more micro swirls. 25% of scratches come from the washing phase, and 75% of scratches and swirls come from the drying phase. This goes the same if you are not washing the vehicle properly and dragging a spec of sand from panel to panel. The vast majority of scratches and swirls come from wiping the surface of the vehicle with mf towels that are improper for the application or have something embedded in them that you dont find, see, or dont even look for.

I know I will come up with some more here, but that's it for how. I hope this helps you understand much more and helps members start thinking of how things are done on their vehicles.

The pic below Ricky is of my 2005 DB9 manual, which they didnt offer that year and not until 2006. Gaydon said less than 24 were made, and less than 12 likely exist today. So very rare indeed. Was pleased to find that out. Also it has the most finicky black paint I have ever worked on. Just the mere wiping with a 1100gsm mf towel will marr the surface. Its really ridiculous, so the only way for me to prevent scratches is to ONLY wash it and blow dry it off. Never touching it in-between.

 

@SheriffDep Is that Jet Black or Onyx Black on your DB9?

 

@brightoncorgi Unfortunately its the Fast Track Jet Black. I prefer the Onyx which is the ONLY Aston I wanted. But, chose mine due to @speedracer800 owning it and the rarity of the manual transmission. The DBS mettalic black is another color. The Onyx has silver flake where the DBS version has red and green and silver flake in it.

The Jet Black is what makes it so finicky All black paint typically is softer and more finicky but they do vary. I was paint correcting a MB ML550 with black paint and just wiping dry finger across the paint scratched it. Mine is very similar, just touching it scratches. Sometimes the ONLY way to protect that type of paint is fully PPF'ing the whole painted surfaces. Which is unfortunate, but to a customer who wants theirs perfect all the time, it would be a complete in depth paint correction, followed by a full car PPF job, then coated to protect the film.

I am undergoing a very in depth paint correction on mine as we speak, taking my time on each panel to make it 110% perfect. I will be completely wrapping in S-TEK Dynoshield the whole front end, and using some S-TEK fashion PPF film in clear carbon fiber to do the roof panel, and the two mirrors. Since mine is Jet Black, the carbon fiber PPF will make it look like its really done in CF. Should be pretty interesting. Will post a thread on the carbon PPF (NOT VINYL) work when I do it. Might be able to offer that for just doing mirror covers. SO people can have whatever color thier car is done looking like CF in that color, while still protecting the surface like all the other PPF does.

 

Wow that car looks awesome! I love everything you did to it. Its perfect!

 

@speedracer800 I will send a text with the car now. Yellow calipers

 

Thanks for the follow up and my bad for taking a minute to respond; busy upstarts to this year of the prosperous and productive pig in the Asiatic spiritual calendar(s). Your notes on your black car are very insightful and productive in looking at my next acquisition (2015-2018 Porsche 911 Turbo S). I am considering going black and as many have always had those pesky reservations about owning a black painted car (dust, easy to scratch and constant mindful cosmetic maintenance). Keep us posted on any new black car maintenance developments.

 

So, my take away from this thread is that I need to step it up from the 'tri-foam wax' and 'spot free rinse' for the extra $2.00 at the automatic car wash...