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LT4 Vantage Project
Hey all,
So I'm not the first to do this, but I'm starting a drivetrain swap on my '07 V8 Vantage. Car details as it sits: 2007 V8 Vantage Manual Trans "Sport Pack" VAP intake filters Headers 200 cell cats X pipe VAP valvetronic exhaust VAP tune H&R Springs BC Forged wheels ECPS satin carbon waterfall/center console/stereo surround/door pulls Aston Installations CarPlay (HD screen) After driving this car for a few thousand miles, I love the look, I love the sound, I love the handling. I'm not quite as big a fan of the powerband. I have a lot of history with GM Gen III/IV motors and find them a difficult platform to argue against. So, a supercharged V8 with 600+ lbs/ft of torque at low RPM and infinite modding capability sounds like fun. Essentially the next step in building "my" personal car. Plans: 2015 C7 Corvette LT4 (dry sump) C6 Corvette torque tube/TR6060 manual transaxle (3.42 gears) - Shortened torque tube C7 headers Upgraded clutch Custom half shafts (Corvette inners, Aston outers) Probably do a cam upgrade and some other modifications eventually. Upgraded cooling system (radiator, oil cooler, brushless fans, custom ducting up front, including brakes) I'll be sorting out CAN to get the gauges working, either using an outfit in the UK that's done it before, or just building my own CAN controller (I've built several CAN translators/CAN controllers before). I plan to make the car look unmodified. This will be a long(ish) term project, with the heavy work starting this winter. I need to finish putting my Mustang (1965 Coupe, twin turbo Coyote) back together in the next few weeks, and find winter storage for it. Then I'll pull the drivetrain out of the Vantage. I already have the LT4 engine itself, which is the main part. I've done >25 engine swaps, mostly in Mazda RX7s (I run the RX7 engine swap forum), so it's not my first rodeo. I welcome feedback, insults, etc. :D |
For those interested, here's a few other cars I've built. I like turbos, but I'm excited for the blower setup in the Aston as I feel the torque will better suit the personality of the chassis.
For reference, I did nearly all of the fabrication on these cars, including welding, wiring, etc. I did fiberglass, carbon, body work and paint on the '88 RX7 and the '65 Mustang as well. The '65 Mustang runs a fully chassis CANbus system with modules front/rear and electric parking brakes, running a CAN controller I designed to integrate the various systems. 1988 Mazda RX7 Forged, turbocharged LS1 engine/T56 "Club spec" harness, ProEFI Engine Management ~800 RWHP, 2800 lbs https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.6sp...3036dcb90.jpeg 1993 Mazda RX7 Twin turbo forged iron block LS 6.0L/T56 "club spec" harness, solid state chassis electronics (PDMs), Holley Engine Management ~1250 RWHP, 2900 Lbs https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.6sp...71571a484.jpeg 1965 Mustang Twin Turbo Coyote/TR6060 Updated suspension, "race spec" harness, solid state chassis electronics (PDMs), Haltech Engine Management ~650 RWHP https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.6sp...3d847300a.jpeg 1995 Camaro Z28 2JZ/T56 Magnum "Club spec" harness, Haltech Engine Management ~1300 RWHP https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.6sp...c189d893f.jpeg |
Subscribed !
Johnny |
Looks forward to watching this thread!
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For inspiration:
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Originally Posted by TR-Spider
(Post 4928913)
For inspiration:
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This is badass as hell. Make a YouTube video documenting everything too.
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I'll put together some videos as I go. I don't have the time to do much fancy editing, and I'm probably pretty boring, but maybe it'll help someone in the future.
Engine came in today. Looks like it has an aftermarket pulley on it already, and had a few minor upgrades. I should be able to get it on a stand in a couple weeks once I'm done with my engine crane on my Mustang build. Probably about 2 months from tearing into the Aston to pull the drivetrain. I will start hacking the CANbus ahead of that, and share what I find, ID/data wise. |
My only comment/criticism is that this.........WILL BE AWESOME!!!!!!!!
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Couple shots of the engine.
It’s stupid clean inside. Very happy with it.https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.6sp...ae780d8a2.jpeg https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.6sp...cc9d47c1a.jpeg https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.6sp...15886ccd7.jpeg https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.6sp...04f5b5cbf.jpeg |
Very nice - I'll be following that....
Is that engine superchaged with a watercooled charge air heat exchanger? |
Originally Posted by TR-Spider
(Post 4929151)
Very nice - I'll be following that....
Is that engine superchaged with a watercooled charge air heat exchanger? I will likely upgrade the “lid” on the supercharger for better flow, along with a few other small tweaks while it’s out. It should be pretty easy to get around 600 RWHP out of it, which is about perfect for the car, in my opinion. I’ve owned and driven lots of 700-900 wheel HP cars and in 99% of scenarios, the extra power just makes more tire smoke. |
Trans/diff acquired. 2011 Corvette Grand Sport/Z06 setup. One of the stronger factory setups, and I know it can be made to fit (likely with some mods to the cooling lines.
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.6sp...1964d518d.jpeg https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.6sp...de97e41a1.jpeg https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.6sp...3a0ce70dd.jpeg |
Curious; anyone here interested in the CANbus hacking process? I'm going to start on it over the next week or two and am wondering if it's worth the effort of putting together a video or two on the approach. I'll share the results regardless. I've tried to reach out to Emerald, who did Craig Taylor's CAN stuff, a couple times and haven't heard anything, so it looks like it's on me to sort it out.
I did do a little poking around already and it looks like I need to tag into the ECU <-> CEM link as I don't seem to be able to inject anything useful on the "far" side (CEM -> OBDII). I'll drop a connector into the other circuit and plug my sniffers in there. Would have been easier via the OBDII plug, hah. |
I know, no one likes updates without pictures, but nothing photogenic going on yet.
I've sorted most of the CAN messaging needed, and validated injection into the CEM via the engine CAN input works. I need to validate how many wheel speed channels are needed, identify coolant temp CAN IDs, and then disable the OEM ECU and check transmission speeds vs. gauge functionality. Once I sort that, I'll have a document to share with all of the data, just in case someone else wants to do this, or use a gauge cluster in a sim rig, or whatever. :) Once the CAN work is done, I can start pulling the chassis apart to prep for installing the new drivetrain. I have everything I need for this except the torque tube, which I'm hoping to pick up in a couple weeks semi-locally (shipping 4' long aluminum tubes sucks). I do have the engine/trans/diff/axles now, and headers should be here this week. I went fairly cheap on the headers as I expect to need to modify them, and I feel slightly better hacking up 900 dollar headers vs. 2200 dollar headers... I expect progress to speed up in a few weeks, once I have my Mustang put in storage and the Aston on the lift to drop out the drivetrain. |
Subscribed!
Somehow I've missed the start of this thread. I am an LS fan. Have FIed and tuned a few LS3s. All AA setups on stock bottom ends; getting the tune correct (HPT) was my biggest enjoyment; mechanical build was pretty simple/easy. I am interested in ALL that you are willing to share on CANBUS mods. Here is a pic of my first LS3 build/tune: https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.6sp...e86982650e.jpg |
CAN hacking done (or at least mostly done).
I can now control, at will: Dash Wakeup/Keepalive RPM Coolant Temp Vehicle Speed ABS Light Traction Control Light (Fuel level doesn't have anything to do with the ECU, so I'm not worried about that as it'll "just work") Vehicle Speed, ABS Light and Traction Control Light are all controlled by the ABS module, and don't appear to need the engine computer at all. I'm told that the other one of these that was built always had a TRAC light on, though, so I'm guessing losing the engine computer makes the ABS computer angry. If that's the case, I can send a message every 100ms to keep that light off (or maybe just send a message to make the ABS computer happy to begin with). The other controls all simply command status, and I've mapped transmit times from the stock ECU, so I'll replicate that on the new controls. The dash still has a few warning lights for electrical system, etc, that I think happen because it's not receiving some data from the ECU. I need the "keep-alive" to... keep it alive... long enough to validate I can shut those off. I'm going to program an Arduino talk on the bus as my current test program can only send one message at a time. Once I have the Arduino setup, I can mimic a constant stream of data, which should let me send "everything is happy" messages to the dash constantly, which should squelch any warning messages. I need to sort out the math for converting the RPM signal to display correctly, but that's easy enough. Coolant temp just has a sweep of decimal values from 95 - 185 to go from "C" to "H" on the dash, so I can just map those temps however I like from the stock computer. I feel like this is really the hardest part of the swap, as I don't have documents to work on. Making it fit is just cutting/welding, no big deal. Wiring work is complex, but I have diagrams from both cars, so it's just a matter of clean integration. CAN data control is completely undocumented, so I had to forge my own way on this bit. I'll have a video put together shortly. I want to get the Arduino in and programmed/controlling things to finalize everything, then I'll edit it (poorly) and share it out. I'll publish out the CAN data as well at that point, as I want to fully validate which bits are qualifiers and which are the data payload a little bit more to make sure it's as cleanly executed as possible. |
Thanks for doing this and sharing. This is the future of automotive repair - might be time for me to get smart on CANBUS!
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Originally Posted by Digitalsolo
(Post 4932379)
CAN hacking done (or at least mostly done).
I can now control, at will: Dash Wakeup/Keepalive RPM Coolant Temp Vehicle Speed ABS Light Traction Control Light (Fuel level doesn't have anything to do with the ECU, so I'm not worried about that as it'll "just work") Vehicle Speed, ABS Light and Traction Control Light are all controlled by the ABS module, and don't appear to need the engine computer at all. I'm told that the other one of these that was built always had a TRAC light on, though, so I'm guessing losing the engine computer makes the ABS computer angry. If that's the case, I can send a message every 100ms to keep that light off (or maybe just send a message to make the ABS computer happy to begin with). The other controls all simply command status, and I've mapped transmit times from the stock ECU, so I'll replicate that on the new controls. The dash still has a few warning lights for electrical system, etc, that I think happen because it's not receiving some data from the ECU. I need the "keep-alive" to... keep it alive... long enough to validate I can shut those off. I'm going to program an Arduino talk on the bus as my current test program can only send one message at a time. Once I have the Arduino setup, I can mimic a constant stream of data, which should let me send "everything is happy" messages to the dash constantly, which should squelch any warning messages. I need to sort out the math for converting the RPM signal to display correctly, but that's easy enough. Coolant temp just has a sweep of decimal values from 95 - 185 to go from "C" to "H" on the dash, so I can just map those temps however I like from the stock computer. I feel like this is really the hardest part of the swap, as I don't have documents to work on. Making it fit is just cutting/welding, no big deal. Wiring work is complex, but I have diagrams from both cars, so it's just a matter of clean integration. CAN data control is completely undocumented, so I had to forge my own way on this bit. I'll have a video put together shortly. I want to get the Arduino in and programmed/controlling things to finalize everything, then I'll edit it (poorly) and share it out. I'll publish out the CAN data as well at that point, as I want to fully validate which bits are qualifiers and which are the data payload a little bit more to make sure it's as cleanly executed as possible. Thanks for the update on the CANBUS work you're doing. Hope you keep reporting. A comment about one section I highlighted - For most systems that I've worked, there is a needed connection with the ECM and any active handling features such as skid/yaw controls, ABS, etc., as these systems rely on throttle control as a component of the feature. This is evident when any one or combination of powertrain faults, a couple of examples of which are - misfires, loss of drive by wire, fueling faults, etc., will, along with a CEL, set messages such as: SERVICE REAR AXLE, AH DISABLED etc., These messages, that come on communicate to the operator there is a powertrain fault that AH, ABS rely on and to not count on them as safety features until the powertrain fault(s) are corrected. They are often misdiagnosed as additional failures and not just features the system suspends because the powertrain control feature is unreliable. |
Valid point on the faults; I really only care about ABS continuing to function, as any traction control (if it works at all without the ECU) would not be well positioned to manage 2x the factory HP and an entirely different torque curve.
That does make me think I should sort out the DBW pedal information. I'm pretty sure I have that already, but I'll double check. If I can send RPM and APP (throttle pedal) position, I should be able to keep ABS happy, but we'll see. Worst case I'll put an MK60 universal racing controller in it and do it that way. That's all assuming that it doesn't "fault" to functional, of course. |
Some more info on throttle position (but you likely know this already)
There are 4 different throttle measurements used in most systems (this DL is a GM E38 ECU) Commanded Throttle Relative Actual SAE Commanded throttle is obviously an input signal. Relative I "think" is neutral, then Actual/SAE throttle positions are output signals and these are what I believe the chassis functions will be looking for. Hope this helps if not redundant. https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.6sp...b1833207ab.png |
Beginning disassembly. First though, starting weight/balance to see where I end up by comparison.
Specs for reference on the weight: 2007 V8 Vantage, 6 Speed VAP Valvetronic Muffler Tubular Headers EGR deleted X Pipe (modified stock H pipe) Stock brakes DBS Swaybars (front/rear) Stock shocks, H&R Springs BC Forged RXZ39, 19x9 Front, 19x10 Rear Falken Azenis 255/35/19 Front, 295/30/19 Rear ECPS Carbon door pulls, center console/waterfall Aston Installations HD Nav upgrade Balance is amazingly consistent stock. I'm very interested in seeing the weight difference. I expect it'll add a little, but my guess is less than 100 lbs all-in. We shall see. https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.6sp...a3dad1f5b.jpeg |
Started disassembly of the car. Exhaust and cooling system out here, I've since pulled the oil system as well. Intention is to get the drivetrain dropped this weekend.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.6sp...4af6e5e24.jpeg https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.6sp...c9aed8bf2.jpeg https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.6sp...c1f07bef5.jpeg Engine prep is underway also. Headers, new accessory drive and adapters for the dry sump oil tank are in place. I'll have an AC compressor, power steering pump and upgraded balancer shortly. Motor mounts are en route also. I'm going to use C6 poly mounts then build custom adapters from the block to those mounts. That will allow for the easiest replacement in the future as needed. https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.6sp...fa77e2817.jpeg https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.6sp...4179146c5.jpeg https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.6sp...6be0d2081.jpeg |
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Sweet project!
Hope you can keep pics coming. All the Best, |
Subframe holes drilled out slightly to fit C6 Corvette mounts. I'm using polyurethane mounts from Hinson Motorsports.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.6sp...70da46c44.jpeg https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.6sp...f2bceb0dc.jpeg https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.6sp...307f5ad4f.jpeg Mocking up the engine on the subframe. I cut out the rear cross brace on the subframe. This will get plated on the ends, and new reinforcements to tie it all back together properly. https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.6sp...610a9155a.jpeg https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.6sp...bb5ea9db5.jpeg https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.6sp...07f265b90.jpeg Mocked up in the engine bay. Engine is tilted slightly forward in the photo, but has since been sorted out while I mock up mounts. I have a driver side mount cut in cardboard now, I'll do the passenger next, then import them into Fusion 360, then get them laser cut, and bend/weld them. https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.6sp...cb7d9bb5b.jpeg |
wow great progress
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So, the alternator wouldn't fit in the OEM location, which led me down the rabbit hole of needing to relocate it, which then required me to relocated the AC compressor. I can get off the shelf bits to relocate the alternator an add power steering, but none of these put the AC where it needs to be to fit. So I bought the kit, cut off the intended AC location (high passenger side on a US car) and moved the AC to low driver side. This needs a custom mounting bracket and idler pulley to clear the belt around the power steering assembly and improve belt wrap on the crank pulley.
Step in 3d scanner and Fusion 360. I scanned all the parts, mocked it up and 3D printed a few revisions to sort out the final fitment. I'm having the flat areas of the final part laser cut in and will CNC machine the other piece, than either bolt or weld it all together (probably some of both) to install on the car. Little more effort than I intended, but you have to do the work to get the result. https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.6sp...7f753e724c.png https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.6sp...2df232cc85.png https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.6sp...5ed34889fa.png https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.6sp...41707c02d4.png https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.6sp...6f9ed12f50.png |
Wow - you are making a serious exersize here, impressive.
Its always takes an amazing high effort, when you try to modify things in such a cramped arrangement as a modern engine bay. You may want to avoid sharp corners, they are stressraisers and cracks may start there. |
Noted on the corners. I'm pretty sure I could lift the car by this AC bracket, so it should be well enough overkill to minimize risk of stress risers. ;)
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As I had to cut out the factory extruded aluminum tube to clear the dry sump pan, I had a solid pice of 6061 1/2" bar laser cut and welded in place. I then boxed the remaining open end of the tube on the left side of the chassis, and added a chamfer on the other side (clearance for the dry sump lines) and then plated that in as well. The welds aren't the prettiest with the contaminated subframe metal, but I'm confident they'll hold up fine.
This weekend I'll finish adjusting and welding/painting the engine mounts so that it's properly held in place on the subframe with no wood blocks. ;) https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.6sp...a8cfc8f06.jpeg https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.6sp...b4061be33.jpeg |
Progress video!
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Wow great job and awesome video showing all the work you have done so far
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Thanks!
I've been working on the transmission fitment. The diff cooler is built into the rear cover of the diff, which interferes with the subframe "x" brace. Not a big deal, I'll just move that brace around, but another thing to consider. I also cut out the rear of the crossmember to make install/removal easier. I'll just put internal tube clamps on it to make it removable and put the strength back. I modified the torque tube to clear the floorpan where it's tight. I cut out two notches (one per side) and then plated it back in with 1/4" 6061, welded internally and externally with the outside ground back to maximize clearance. It's TIGHT, but will fit and won't interfere during normal drivetrain movement. I need to make a tiny tweak to the front subframe for header clearance, then I'll put it all back in to measure torque tube length and send that off for modification. While that's gone, I'll start on cooling system install. I will reuse the stock P/S low side lines and cooler, though I'll build a new pressure line. Oil and radiator setups will be all new, as I'd like to put in a bit heftier bits for all of that. Radiator is in hand, and I'll use a Chevy Volt cooling fan (Spal fans, PWM, low profile, brushless and perfect fitment). Oil cooler will go back in the stock spot, just swapped to one better suited to the -10 AN fittings, and I'll reuse the stock AC condenser with custom brackets on the new radiator. I also have to fit an air to water heat exchanger up there, then duct it all so that everything gets some air. I will have dual small coolers in the rear of the car, in roughly the stock tranny cooler location. These will cool the transmission and diff separately, as each has a built in pump but run different fluid types. I also have everything to get the dry sump and breather systems installed. That should be pretty easy as the tank will go in the stock location on simple brackets. I have a Radium dual breather tank, and will use one to filter the dry sump tank and another for the engine crankcase ventilation. I plan to recirc both into the intake side to keep it from getting stinky. Once all of that's done, it's just electrical work and an exhaust system (just an X pipe back to my Velocity AP Valvetronic). I'll do Powerflex bushings and 2 piece brake rotors while I'm in there, and finish adding the mounts for the rear roadster/"S" shear plate. So far, so good... |
Chevy Volt fans (Spal brushless PWM units that the OEM Corvette ECU can natively control), on a custom radiator. Converted the radiator to AN fittings (16 top, 20 bottom) and machined some spacers for the OEM Aston (Jaguar) AC condenser. Modified the OEM lower radiator support to hold the new radiator, and will build a custom upper mount shortly.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.6sp...b3d69b10d4.jpg https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.6sp...fc9a1e8d7d.jpg New oil cooler added, plumbed and ducted. I followed Aston's design with the oil cooler shrouding, though I made mine out of aluminum instead of plastic. https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.6sp...82dddbeda.jpeg https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.6sp...b0d674a3b.jpeg Next up is the heat exchanger for the supercharger, then building the radiator lines, and sorting out various tanks (dry sump tank/lines, supercharger coolant tank and pump, engine coolant tank, and power steering tank). I'll reuse OEM stuff where I can, and just fabricate aluminum tanks where OEM won't work. |
Im somewhat in awe following you on this journey…was offered a jaguar v12 unit for free yesterday….kinda tempted…ya know…just in case I’m inspired…lol…great work..
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Originally Posted by Import;4935081…[b
was offered a jaguar v12 unit for free yesterday[/b]….kinda tempted…ya know…
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.6sp...de0576e706.jpg |
The plot thickens….lol
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Completed the cooling stack. Supercharger heat exchanger added to the front of the stack for maximum airflow. I was able to reuse the stock power steering cooler and lines. Next will be tanks. Overflow tank, degas tank, power steering tank, dry sump oil tank, breather tanks. Lots of tanks.
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.6sp...edaf56120.jpeg https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.6sp...06fc7f7b9.jpeg |
Really impressive!
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