Verdict on the RS4? Too early?
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Seems like you can get a 997.1 C4 or even C4S for the same money. Speaking only about maintenance/reliability, is it accurate to say that the p-car would be a better choice?
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RS4 issues.
DRC suspension, this has a fix now. There is a revised system that will go in your car once yours go bad.
Brake pads: The OE pads have a decent bite but have metal pins in them that wreck your rotors before the low-pad sensor sets off. Expensive fix if you don't keep an eye on it, or better, replace with aftermarket pads.
The worst issue, carbon build up: It's a plague of these cars. If you search the US Patent website you will find the 14 page article that Volkswagen AG wrote about this issue on their FSI motors. Here: http://www.mycar.net/volkswagen/6866031.html That is a patent from Volkswagen AG explaining they are trying to come up with a solution to the problem, not for existing cars, but for cars in the future. The patent goes into explaining how the build up is caused by the FSI model and how "carbon deposits[on the valves] have extremely negative effects" They really bash their own design in there. "Major performance issues" etc
There is not a cure for it, you will deal with it for the life of the car. The power loss will be gradual so you won't really "feel it" over the 1000's of miles.
RS4 with 9000 miles:
RS4 after $800 clean job:
The gentleman who owns the car above, dyno'd it before the clean up and then after. There was a 23.8hp difference before and after. After 9000 miles.
DRC suspension, this has a fix now. There is a revised system that will go in your car once yours go bad.
Brake pads: The OE pads have a decent bite but have metal pins in them that wreck your rotors before the low-pad sensor sets off. Expensive fix if you don't keep an eye on it, or better, replace with aftermarket pads.
The worst issue, carbon build up: It's a plague of these cars. If you search the US Patent website you will find the 14 page article that Volkswagen AG wrote about this issue on their FSI motors. Here: http://www.mycar.net/volkswagen/6866031.html That is a patent from Volkswagen AG explaining they are trying to come up with a solution to the problem, not for existing cars, but for cars in the future. The patent goes into explaining how the build up is caused by the FSI model and how "carbon deposits[on the valves] have extremely negative effects" They really bash their own design in there. "Major performance issues" etc
There is not a cure for it, you will deal with it for the life of the car. The power loss will be gradual so you won't really "feel it" over the 1000's of miles.
RS4 with 9000 miles:
RS4 after $800 clean job:
The gentleman who owns the car above, dyno'd it before the clean up and then after. There was a 23.8hp difference before and after. After 9000 miles.
Last edited by ragdoll; Aug 17, 2009 at 12:05 AM.
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great discussion concerning carbon build up on the FSI engines. i had my mind set on a B7 RS4, but now i am really on the fence until a solution for the carbon build up is corrected.
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The solution is very simple. 2 choises
1. Find the crankcase vents lines that lead back into the intake. Either make longer ones or do some splicing and attach them to a catch can or air/oil seperator. Thats the cheap and easy fix.
2. Buy a Water/Methanol injection system and get more power out of your motor.
The meth is a awesome cleaner for any metal surface. If you buy the PES Supercharger kit, it is an option.
1. Find the crankcase vents lines that lead back into the intake. Either make longer ones or do some splicing and attach them to a catch can or air/oil seperator. Thats the cheap and easy fix.
2. Buy a Water/Methanol injection system and get more power out of your motor.
The meth is a awesome cleaner for any metal surface. If you buy the PES Supercharger kit, it is an option.
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Is the R8 significantly faster? Just curious.
Registered User
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 107
From: Bay Area
Rep Power: 22
RS4 issues.
DRC suspension, this has a fix now. There is a revised system that will go in your car once yours go bad.
Brake pads: The OE pads have a decent bite but have metal pins in them that wreck your rotors before the low-pad sensor sets off. Expensive fix if you don't keep an eye on it, or better, replace with aftermarket pads.
The worst issue, carbon build up: It's a plague of these cars. If you search the US Patent website you will find the 14 page article that Volkswagen AG wrote about this issue on their FSI motors. Here: http://www.mycar.net/volkswagen/6866031.html That is a patent from Volkswagen AG explaining they are trying to come up with a solution to the problem, not for existing cars, but for cars in the future. The patent goes into explaining how the build up is caused by the FSI model and how "carbon deposits[on the valves] have extremely negative effects" They really bash their own design in there. "Major performance issues" etc
There is not a cure for it, you will deal with it for the life of the car. The power loss will be gradual so you won't really "feel it" over the 1000's of miles.
RS4 with 9000 miles:
RS4 after $800 clean job:
The gentleman who owns the car above, dyno'd it before the clean up and then after. There was a 23.8hp difference before and after. After 9000 miles.
DRC suspension, this has a fix now. There is a revised system that will go in your car once yours go bad.
Brake pads: The OE pads have a decent bite but have metal pins in them that wreck your rotors before the low-pad sensor sets off. Expensive fix if you don't keep an eye on it, or better, replace with aftermarket pads.
The worst issue, carbon build up: It's a plague of these cars. If you search the US Patent website you will find the 14 page article that Volkswagen AG wrote about this issue on their FSI motors. Here: http://www.mycar.net/volkswagen/6866031.html That is a patent from Volkswagen AG explaining they are trying to come up with a solution to the problem, not for existing cars, but for cars in the future. The patent goes into explaining how the build up is caused by the FSI model and how "carbon deposits[on the valves] have extremely negative effects" They really bash their own design in there. "Major performance issues" etc
There is not a cure for it, you will deal with it for the life of the car. The power loss will be gradual so you won't really "feel it" over the 1000's of miles.
RS4 with 9000 miles:
RS4 after $800 clean job:
The gentleman who owns the car above, dyno'd it before the clean up and then after. There was a 23.8hp difference before and after. After 9000 miles.
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Meth injection is a good idea. However, it has already been tried on 2 RS4's that I've read about and they found the carbon buildup to still be an issue. I found it hard to believe but they had pictures to back the claim(plus, why would they make it up?).
Anyways... eaglesbasketbal, it seems that the high performance motors(i.e. RS4 and R8) are having greater issues at shorter intervals. Don't think your car is now junk or that you have to get it cleaned every year, probably not the case.
Last edited by ragdoll; Aug 26, 2009 at 09:10 PM.
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If there was already alot of buildup then the meth injection can only do so much. If you get it brand new or get it cleaned and add the kit, you should have no worries.
If you do both the catchcan and the meth injection, that will totally solve the problem.
If you do both the catchcan and the meth injection, that will totally solve the problem.
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Yes. Sorry for the bad news. Read the patent article that Volkswagen AG wrote above. It affects all FSI motors. In fact, it affects all direct injection motors(Chevy, Porsche, etc). With so many manufacturers jumping on the DI wagon I think the globe is headed down a shadey path of direct injection cars. Why are major car companies not doing their homework on this?
Meth injection is a good idea. However, it has already been tried on 2 RS4's that I've read about and they found the carbon buildup to still be an issue. I found it hard to believe but they had pictures to back the claim(plus, why would they make it up?).
Anyways... eaglesbasketbal, it seems that the high performance motors(i.e. RS4 and R8) are having greater issues at shorter intervals. Don't think your car is now junk or that you have to get it cleaned every year, probably not the case.
Meth injection is a good idea. However, it has already been tried on 2 RS4's that I've read about and they found the carbon buildup to still be an issue. I found it hard to believe but they had pictures to back the claim(plus, why would they make it up?).
Anyways... eaglesbasketbal, it seems that the high performance motors(i.e. RS4 and R8) are having greater issues at shorter intervals. Don't think your car is now junk or that you have to get it cleaned every year, probably not the case.
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Romp the throttle now, and try to remember how it felt now, 10000 miles from now. The power loss is so gradual from this, it's hard to detect(since the buildup is over 1000's of miles.
The power loss is due to timing being retarded from lack of proper air flow to the cylinder, fyi.
Use Seafoam on the intake.
Remove the brake booster vacuum line from the intake at the brake booster.
Place the vacuum hose in about 1qrt of Seafoam.
Start engine, idle until the 1qrt of seafoam has been injested, or until the engine cough's and splutters to a stall (hopefully with most of that 1qrt injested).
Allow to soak for 5-10 minutes.
Reconnect brake booster vacuum line, start engine.
You will get some blue smoke from the exhaust, and the engine may run rough for about 30s, but it should get rid of almost all of the carbon.
I would do this religiously every 6k miles (I would repeat it twice) on my old FSI GTI.
(because that was turbo'd though, I drilled a small hole into the intake and pumped it in under pressure)
Remove the brake booster vacuum line from the intake at the brake booster.
Place the vacuum hose in about 1qrt of Seafoam.
Start engine, idle until the 1qrt of seafoam has been injested, or until the engine cough's and splutters to a stall (hopefully with most of that 1qrt injested).
Allow to soak for 5-10 minutes.
Reconnect brake booster vacuum line, start engine.
You will get some blue smoke from the exhaust, and the engine may run rough for about 30s, but it should get rid of almost all of the carbon.
I would do this religiously every 6k miles (I would repeat it twice) on my old FSI GTI.
(because that was turbo'd though, I drilled a small hole into the intake and pumped it in under pressure)
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 136
From: Seattle, WA
Rep Power: 24
Use Seafoam on the intake.
Remove the brake booster vacuum line from the intake at the brake booster.
Place the vacuum hose in about 1qrt of Seafoam.
Start engine, idle until the 1qrt of seafoam has been injested, or until the engine cough's and splutters to a stall (hopefully with most of that 1qrt injested).
Allow to soak for 5-10 minutes.
Reconnect brake booster vacuum line, start engine.
You will get some blue smoke from the exhaust, and the engine may run rough for about 30s, but it should get rid of almost all of the carbon.
I would do this religiously every 6k miles (I would repeat it twice) on my old FSI GTI.
(because that was turbo'd though, I drilled a small hole into the intake and pumped it in under pressure)
Remove the brake booster vacuum line from the intake at the brake booster.
Place the vacuum hose in about 1qrt of Seafoam.
Start engine, idle until the 1qrt of seafoam has been injested, or until the engine cough's and splutters to a stall (hopefully with most of that 1qrt injested).
Allow to soak for 5-10 minutes.
Reconnect brake booster vacuum line, start engine.
You will get some blue smoke from the exhaust, and the engine may run rough for about 30s, but it should get rid of almost all of the carbon.
I would do this religiously every 6k miles (I would repeat it twice) on my old FSI GTI.
(because that was turbo'd though, I drilled a small hole into the intake and pumped it in under pressure)
