If you guys knew how good a car the S50B32 sedan was, you would understand why the E9x M3 is such a disappointment.

And if it was not for the CARB OBDII problems, I would have done the proper conversion. That is a proper M3.

If we had gotten the real E36, the E46 would not have been that well received, because it would have been a no big deal car in comparison, like it was in .de.

The M3 went from being in the same league as the 993 to being compare to a bunch of heavy slushie tronic POS' is quite a sad step in the wrong direction.

Why is there even an //M forum on this board? It should be changed to heavy slushie tronic POS forum. I didn't know the new m3 was such a crappy car. I should stop listening to professional reviews and listen to the P-car fanboys. Let's keep comparing apples to oranges guys. Luxury sports coupes against sports cars. 64k car versus 130k car. No one is saying m3's are better than Porsches. They are completely different type of car tailored to a different crowd. Small mans complex. Gotta put other people or things down to make yourself feel better about what you have and your decisions in life. I thought this was going to be a useful thread with some intelligent discussion on the m3's price and it's competition Instead it turned out to be a thread about P-car fanboys bashing the m3. I'm tired of trying to explain things to you Stuka. Seems all you want to do is bash every car that is not up to your "sports car" standard, i.e z06 and gt2. You must have a small *****. I am sorry, at least your gt2 is fast.

Greg - I don't think anybody is comparing BMW to Porsche here. It would be ridiculous to do in the first place. Save for the Cayenne, Porsche is all about performance. For godsake BMW makes ONE model (M3) that is directed to the peformance driven crowd.... The rest are luxury cruisers (some with some high HP) and SUVs. And no I don't think the M5 or M6 competes with 911 purchasers. Two very different cars. In all actuality, BMW does not make a SINGLE car that is out there to compete with a Porsche. Even back in the E30/E36 days, do you really think that those cars were competing with the 911? That is laughable. So why try to compare a heavier M3 to todays Porsche. The M3 and CaymanS are not even comparable. Two different cars with two totally different feels. I've had experience with them all.

I agree with ILL the 911tt I had prior to coilovers wallowed all over the damn place. In stock form those cars aren't "track demons" by any stretch of the imagination. I understand the 997's are considerably better in stock form than the 996's.

thinking about this whole debate for a second, there really sint any. we all know here that an m3 is not comparable to a 911, and an m5/m6 certainly are not.
i think *i* got a little carried away, because lately ive had to deal with a few 'select ******bags' on m3forum who want to justify the new m3 by comparing it to a 997 is a straight line. they are ignorant and dont know any better: and to think this is coming from older guys, one who happens to be like 60. so he tried to decieve and manipulate everything he or anyone says. for instance, will say the new m3s time (on cup tires) will be close to its time on regular tires because cup tires dont give much time, but then when another car is faster than an m3, suddendly those cup tires that the car had are worth a lot of time (thus making the car slower than it ran had it been on ps2s and not cups), very hypocritical, you see what i mean?
i havnt been posting much here since work has been pretty busy to say the least lately but its nice to come back to a forum where peoples views arent skewed/biased because of a bmw badge. people may say oh 6speed is biased, but a considerable amount of members have or have owned m cars.
we know the 911 is THE benchmark and always will be.

....don't think so man. Your E30 was NEVER and will NEVER be in the same league as a 993.

Google S50B32.

How many M3's have you had? How much track time in each?

Er, S50B32 M3's were the direct competitors with 993's in .de.

What 996, or for that matter, bottom of the line base Coxsters have brakes that get completely destroyed at hot California tracks in July?

If you have ever been to the hotpits after the end of a session, you would know what I mean. E46 M3's with stock brakes will pull in with that trademark BMW brake stench with massive pad deposits. What cheap P cars does that?

And that's my point, even the cheapest Coxster has better brakes. It cannot possibly cost BMW that much money, especially given the economy of scale, to put in some decent brakes in their M cars.

Yet, they continue to slap on scheiße for brakes on their "developed on the track" M3.

Or do we all forgot the "Street legal, pretty much" ad campaign?

BMW stock brakes work great for public roads, and that's where 95% of people are going to use their BMW. If I was going to heavily track my car I would buy a BBK, but since I'm not I'd rather not pay the extra thousands.

It sounds like the 135i (or maybe it's the tii) will have brakes sourced from Brembo, so I would not be surprised to see that trend spread to the new M3 in a year or two, and this old argument about stock BMW brakes can finally be put to rest.

Doc - he just doesn't get the fact that the brakes are just fine for what 99% of the people are going to use this car for. Its been said countless times. Just look at the previous posts on here and on other forums and the pissing and moaning he espouses about various and sundry items. I don't why he just doesn't drive a Radical for Christsake or buy that Ariel Atom thats for sale on here

I'm done. Second one to unsubscribe.

You should go try an M3 with S50B32. Many ex M3 owners here are driving P cars because we think the M3 is going in the wrong direction. Instead of being in the same league as the 993, it is now downgraded to the pretender Audi's and slushie Benz.

Why do you associate so much of your self worth with a car? It's just a car. And you know, calling people names really doesn't make your argument any better. Oh, and neither does raising your voices. And why is someone who can fit in to a sunroofed M3 with his helmet on calling other people small?

You don't even know what S50B32 means, have enough track time to know that M3 stock brakes are crap, or have owned enough M3's to understand why many who have don't like the direction it's going, and on top of that, you are the one getting all emo when talking about a heavy car with no brakes.

So, what's your M3 service interval? How's that oil analysis results from your 15K free oil change? How's the lead content? Do you know why that's important?

Oh, and why would a heterosexual guy be so concerned about another guy's package size?

That's not the point. 99.999999999999999% of Coxster owners don't track their cars, yet the brakes don't disintegrate on the track if the 0.000000000000001% of the owners decide to do so.

So, what's BMW's excuse? Not charging enough to be able to absorb the cost of real brakes?

That's just it, the bottom of the line BMW has better brakes than the M cars. It is quite laughable and sad at the same time.

if you dont like it dont buy it - like i would do

i have a e46 m3 and i do think that bmw should try to define the car more in driving pleasure/track/road course

but i guess they look this way: 98% of e46 m3 owners dont track the car, so they made it more for daily driving and less track focus

for the rest of m3 lovers that do go track, it will be a CSL version hardcode track car

I for one will be getting an M3 sedan w/DCT next year. It will suit my dd needs perfectly.

Well they don't overcharge to the degree Porsche does, that's for damn sure.

The 135tii is most definitely not the bottom of the line and those brakes on it are there because it's designed to be more of a track car than an all-around GT like the M3.

All this drama..yada yada. to each their own. don't worry be happy

Now does anyone know when this will freakin show up on bmwusa.com....the anticipation kills me.