The E46 M3 still has my vote.

 

Interesting argument that is going on here - i have to agree that handling is one of the most important characteristics in a car for me these days

When i had my e46 M3 i thought it handled… well, but when compared to my dads 996 Carrera C2 i thought it was a terrible, the call felt like a PIG, the new m3 is going to weigh even more and that weight undeniably be felt, something the 997’s don’t have to worry about - the 997S will probably still be faster then the new m3 (car and driver did run a 3.9 to 60 and a 12.3’ish ÂĽ mile in the 997S)

The 996TT i traded my M3 in for is just an amazing car in every respect, power, brakes, handling, feel... perfect imo - it was shortly after the e92 was reveled that I bought the 996TT too

The e92 M3 has quite a few problems - Looks are number 1 (terrible), weight it going be a problem a high optioned car will be round 3700-3800 lbs… that will diminish handling characteristics to a large amount, the M6 may be fast but around a track its not as good as it could be, b/c its fast allows it to power out after a turn

It will also depreciate terribly as stated with the m5, and 6 - it’s a shame from what a beautiful car the e46 m3 was...and what the e92 m3 is

 

I think you hit the nail on the head here. The car looks horrible, I've loved every M3 until now, especially my (ever beginning to age) E36. BMW has strayed from being the essential (for the price) sports car of the 80s, 90s and early 2k's to simply a horribly heavy, horribly ugly looking automobile.

The last "sports" car that was that heavy was an E39 M5, with a little suspension help it handled pretty well for a big car. Plus it didn't look like it had down syndrome either which is why you still see people fighting to find a clean low mileage example.

 

Wow, I'm no apologist for BMW but you guys are out to lunch. The new coupe is one of the best looking cars to come out of BMW since Bangle took over. Its still a GT car and for us to even mention it with a 997S means they are hitting the performance mark. We will have to wait and see but if history tells us anything, BMW will deliver a stunning car.

M3's have great resale and they do not follow the trends of other M cars. It will be a hot commodity when it hits the street. I think its very likely it will again dominate its peers (RS4 and C63, CTS-V). Now its just a waiting game.

As far as pricing, a 997S will still be 20K more. I admit its a cooler car, but thats a good bit of disparity and will be enough to discourage an awful lot of M buyers from moving up.

 

i agree completely. you DID hit the nail on the head with that post.

 

+1 totally true.

 

i think we are 'out to lunch' as you say because we all expect a certain product from bmw, especially if it comes from the M division. there are few car makers out there today that stick to their true roots. yea, every car maker has upped the luxury department to meet consumer needs, but bmw has just gone too far. i mean how much of a gimmick is the 500 hp button in the m5 and m6, and all the crazy crap they are filling the m3 with. did you ever see the top gear where they compared the 997S, the M6, and the AM V8 vantage? in the end the Porsche eaily won, and on the road course, even though it had the least hp and least tq, it whooped them both! they said at the end, the m6 has so much hp but it doesnt do anything because they have so many pointless and frivilous electronics in the car. honestly, a person who is going to drop 60-70K on a car more than likely can afford 15-20K more for a 911, which is basically a car that most dream of owning and while the m3 does a good job to compete with it and other high end cars, it just doesnt offer the same stuff or the same feel, which makes the extra money well worth it. also, i think the m3 will be faster than the RS4 easily, but may not be faster than the c63 amg, and wont be faster than a 997S. the 911 is SOOOOO much more of a cooler car that is the perfect all around package. they are some of the best handling cars in the world, and have the fit and finish, etc, etc, etc. bmw cannot compete with much other than straight line performance and being a more valued car, thats about it. i think you are wrong with delivering a stunning car, because the m5 and m6 were supposed to do that, and FAILED miserably. mostly, their prob if the extra weight from the marketing gimmicky junk they throw at you like idrive, i would have thought they would have realized it garbage and done away with it and make a touchcscreen nav like its competitors. again, i dont think 15-20K more for a 911 is going to discourage anyone, when on the other hand, i think that the m3 being in the higher price range will have more people jumping up to the 911 range. remember, even the base 997 runs high 12's at around 109-110 mph. thats no slouch, esp for a 325 hp car and remember that for prob a mere 5-10K more, a base 911 can be had for over the price of the new m3. thats gonna be a killer for the m3 as well, IMO. i personally would take a base 997 over the new m3 even if the new m3 is slightly faster in a straight, because on the track, it will not be at all!

 

I meant out to lunch in that you are bashing what is sure to be an exceptional car and comparing it to a much more expensive car that when applied to the same criteria is equally culpable for the same charges.

I agree the 997S is a cooler car, but I cannot drive it any faster on US highways than anything else. You are unlikely to lose me in the twisties or even gap my much on a track day when cars are close enough on paper that it comes down to the driver. If you continue to push the argument than eventually you have to say the ZO6 is the best of the bunch. It is the fastest, they are well built and the money is right. If you start in again about subjective appeal like interior quality of aesthetic appeal or pimp factor, that is personal preference and is really what people pay for. It sure as hell is not performance. If you really want a pure sports car as you suggest, the Boxster is by far the funnest car they make.

 

im not trying to 'push' anything, esp an arguement, just a discussion. i think the boxster is a great car and that the people who bash them have not driven one. if we had an autobahn here in the US, people would appreciate the boxster more as it and the cayman are quite possibly the best handling cars ever made. all i know is i am not impressed at all by the new m3, and that is a dissapointment for me. ive said it many time, the engine is very good, although i would have liked to have seen them keep the I6 but maybe increase displacement to 3.6-3.8 liters instead of go to a v8. it just seems like bmw is just playing the hp game, pushing hp up so much in hopes that people will be distracted from the obese cars they are putting out. id rather have a 375 hp m3 that lost 100 lbs from the e46 m3 than a 420 hp m3 that weighs 250 lbs more. i also think that around a track, it wont be close for an e92 m3 and a 997S when you take into consideration everything.

 

We will see soon enough. I just think you are jumping the gun. I loved the E36 M3, drove it a few times but never owned one. Had 2 E30's, 1 E36 and the E46 M3 and thought they were all great even the 318. I have a 7 that is fantastic, coming off two previous Mercedes the BMW is actually fun to drive and that is saying something for a 4500 sedan.

I really think the new M3 will be the fastest in a straight line and probably have the fastest track times of any previous M3 and evolving it into a a functional sporting coupe/sedan with luxury features is part of the plan.

I know guys like you and me really want the performance to be fantastic but a huge segment of the buyers of the M3 need it to be practical as well so BMW delivers. Nothing wrong with that.

I agree it does make some people look to the 911, myself included, but my point is that without experiencing the car first hand or having some reviews to reflect on, I just don't think either of us has an idea of just how it will shake out.

My contention, based on previous experience is that it will be great. There is nothing along the way that would make me believe they ruined this car. The V8 is lighter than the outgoing I6, lots of cool technology, good build quality, nice looking (IMO), they are releasing the 6speed before SMG . Reconfigured mulit link in the rear, lighter weight susp. components, composite roof. Some of this stuff we would have killed for on our E46 cars wouldn't you agree?

Correct me if I am wrong, but you seem wholly disatisfied right now. ???

 

its def going to be the fastest m3 in a straight line as it should be. i think that the V8 is very cool, but most everything else, ESPEIALLY the interior being grotesque is horribly wrong and overdone and most things look like an afterthought. its nice that the v8 weighs less than the I6 and that they are using cool lightweight stuff that i def would like on my e46 m3(which only weighs in the low 33XX lbs by the way) but in the end, even with all this lgithweight material, its going to weight a good 200 lbs more than the e46 and thats what annoys me. why use them if they arent going to make the overall weight less than the prev generation. my m3 will prob easily be able to keep up with the new m3 in a straight line considering its a fully NA car just no cams or throttle bodies, which dont add up to much anyway. i am glad they are going to go with a traditional 6MT first instead of creating an attrocity in the m3 like they did to the m5 6MT. i totally see that BMW is catering more toward the people who want the m3 to be as practical as an audi a4, and guys like you and i and the people on this board get jipped out of what could have been such a spectacular car, but will settle for a more mundane one.

 

E30 195hp 2750lbs 6.9 to 60 power to weight 14.1 : 1

E36 240hp 3175lbs 6.1 to 60 13.2 : 1

E46 333hp 3460lbs 4.9 to 60 10.4 : 1

E92 415hp 3648lbs 4.8 to 60 8.8 : 1


Wow, almost 1000lbs over the years. Power to weight improves but no arguing there is a lot more mass to rotate around a corner.

 

wow, thats A LOT of weight! conservatively, my m3 actually has a better power to weight ratio with my mods than the new m3. i just cant get over that weight issue. i mean with a fully loaded car expect it to be more around 3800 lbs, and watch that power to weight ratio go down real fast.

 

i think one of the main reasons that porsche is such a dream car to many people is that it sticks to what it is...a sports car

bmw is having an identity crisis lately, they aren’t sure what they are anymore (maybe they think they are pontiac hehe), are they a Gt car? a sports car? a luxury car? who knows...and all this gimmicky junk adding weight and not much else isn’t fun anymore

PorscheC4 i like how you mentioned a top gear episode, i will never forget when jeremy is going to race richard (i forget what jeremy is driving) but richard is in the m6 and jeremy knows he will beat richard in the race and he does b/c jeremy takes off all the while richard is still sitting in the car adjusting, the 500hp button, the shocks, the sport button, the power button, the mode of smg, this that and the other... its just extreme now

bmw has clearly set their sites on the 997 with this M3 its clear, but they are moving away from everything they used to be, porsche has a perfect balance of everything, BMW wants EVERYTHING at 100% they want 100% sports car, 80% luxury, and so forth...it cant be done, when will they realize this

I really am done with BMW, I currently would not consider buying even 1 car they sell now, the e46 M3 was the BEST car in its price range, it really was, imo there was no car that could touch it - this will not hold true with the e92 M3…

...oh and then there are the looks...that car is just, ugh...

 

the m3 was, and still is the best, but your key words are "FOR THE PRICE". the new m3 is entering base 997 pricing and its gonna be its doom. maybe it will be slightly faster than a 997, almost as fast as a 997S but it wont handle as well, the steering wont be the same, the looks arent there, the list goes on and on. they def have lost their identity and hopefully will find it one day. there are maybe 1 or 2 cars i would buy, but then again, i would buy a Porsche before i got one of them and it would easily be the better car and choice.