I'd have to agree. 82mm is definitely capable of flowing more than 80mm, and the machining inside the IPD plenum is clearly a lot nicer than the inside of the Porsche part. No debate there.

If you are referring to me as Brad Pitt, I'd like to point out that I am questioning the obviously altered dyno chart, not the product or performance claim.

 

This is oft stated. This and the celebrated "Y" design. No one to date has proven it.

Well, I should say no one without "printer errors" has proven it.

 

Gator Bite you fanboy for softronics like you are trying to pay back a loan.

Your latest promotional disaster just blew up in your face over at Teamspeed.com, when you were "Cayman Expert" or are you Gator Bite today ?

It is a very sad situation when you go over to another site and in your first dozen posts you are called out by a super moderator of the site and then the administrator of the site and then multiple members of the site as being supicious and then your "Cayman Expert" handle is tossed and fanboy Gator Bite is revealed. (OUCH!!!)

OK ,I will be watching while you start spinning your B.$. to cover up your latest failed softronic fanboy promotion.

 

Hello 'Slowcart' or should that be 'Elmo' !!!

 

Slowcart,

Believe what you want. This was not a promotional disaster of any type, nor did it blow up in anyone's face other than the vendor that posted an obviously doctored dyno chart.

Everyone who called me out as suspicious was right to do so. I was a brand new member, making a very serious claim and adding extraordinary detail to that claim. Everything pointed to me being a shill or troll (like you). I would have acted the same way if I was a spectator or moderator, and I think I clearly communicated that.

The second anyone asked who I was, I PM'd them and offered my identity without hesitation. I made it clear to JCay, DJ, Barrister, and Eddie. I don't even know Eddie, but he asked for my identity, so I gave it to him.

Why is it that you have such a hard time with me wishing to have a different name on TeamSpeeed. You have a different name there? That's OK? Slowcart, Elmo91789, Cliff, Cobalt987S, Optimus, what ever you want to call yourself today. I haven't been banned at any forum, which is a lot more than you can say.

Slander me if you wish, try to convince anyone you want that my motives are tainted, but what ever you do, don't try to address any of the many legitimate and very detailed concerns that I posed about the altered dyno chart. The best anyone would suggest was 'printer anomalies'. Please....

I even followed up my claim with twenty examples of other Dyno Dynamics print outs, six of them being from the very same dyno that supposedly generated the chart in question. Not a single one of them had any of the anomalies that I called into question.

Many happy customers came to the rescue of BBI, providing testimonies of what a great guy Betim is, what great work they do there, etc.... All of that I'm sure is true. But it doesn't change the fact that the chart was altered, and none of those happy customers, many whom I assume have had their cars dyno'd there, would share their dyno charts to help back up the scrutinized dyno chart.

I know it's hard for people to separate this, but I am not criticizing any company or product. I am calling attention to an obviously doctored dyno chart and asking why. This is what makes web forums good for members. The ability for a person with a question to publicly say, "Hey, what's up with that?".

If you're going to post something suspicious, like a doctored dyno chart, you need to expect someone to notice and call you out. It could have been something as simple as, "Well, we forgot to enter detailed descriptors at test time, so we went back and added them later. I assure you that the added descriptors are accurate." But no such explanation was offered.

 

A new printout of the Dyno was posted. My only comment is while there are fewer print errors (some still remain), it has been pointed out that there is a dip in the Dyno run of the Softronic right around 5400 RPM, where no such dip occurs for the IPD run. I am no expert but I am told these curves should be parallel. And there is no plausible explanation for why a larger plenum/throttle body produces less HP at the highest RPM levels, none that I am aware of. Any dyno experts out there?

http://www.teamspeed.com/forums/boxs...-t-body-6.html

 

Poke fun if you must.
I'm just getting tired of reading some people's borderline unintelligible communication/typing skills. I don't claim to be a scholar of the highest tier (far from it), but I do know how to click the spell-check button.

 

Come on TT. I'm just goofing. I author plenty of my own typos.

 

We need to meet up when the weather gets warmer. Two AWE exhausts ripping down the road should sound preeeeety good.

 

I'm not a dyno expert, but a possible reason there is a power drop is the resonant frequency caused by a long runner with a larger plenum volume. In short, the sudden closing of the valve creates a compression wave that bounces off of the shut valve and back up the runner. When it hits the open plenum it inverts forming an expansion wave which then travels back down the runner and continues this process. Well designed intakes take advantage of this effect (known as the Helmholtz resonance) such that at a specific RPM (usually peak power) these compression waves meet the valve at the exact moment it opens to create a supercharging effect. Unfortunately, at some point the expansion waves will hit the valve as it opens and actually rob you of power. This antinode shows up on the dyno graph as a dip in power. Without a voluminous plenum, this effect is not as noticeable.

In regards to the lower peak power: at higher RPM, the cylinders are sucking air at such a high flow rate that the larger plenum hinders airflow directly into each runner and therefore will lower your peak power.

Of course, it could have nothing to do with any of this and in fact be something as simple as the MAF. Just my $0.02

 

I just viewed the TeamSpeed thread, and I see that a replacement dyno chart has been posted. I've viewed the new chart very closely and I'd have to say that I do not see any evidence of alterations. If that chart had been posted in the first place, I'd never have questioned it.

I've spoken to many people about Betim, many of whom know him and whom I know very well and trust very much. He appears to be a generous Porsche enthusiasts with very high integrity, honesty and skill.

I know a lot of folks took offense to me calling out the dyno defects, probably because he is such a good guy. Please go back and read every word I've authored again. You will not find me questioning Betim, BBI, the products tested, or the actual results (thought I did express the same surprise and skepticism about the results that Betim did). I only questioned the obvious alterations of the dyno chart, and in retrospect, after seeing the new chart, it is undeniable that I was right. The dyno had been altered. Particularly the descriptions. The other elements, I can't say for sure that they were the product of alterations. It is possible that the 6,800 RPM vertical anomaly was a printer error, but once you have your guard up everything looks suspicious. Had the dyno chart been altered to be misleading? I don't know, I can't say. I was just saying it had been altered and when I see an altered dyno chart, I have to ask why.

This poor guy made a mistake. He posted an altered chart, and judging by his reaction to my queries, I'm guessing that he didn't even know it had been altered. I'd be lying if I told you that I don't feel bad for calling it out. But that's me. I call it like I see it. I consider it simultaneously my largest strength and largest weakness.

Rob, you'll drive yourself crazy trying to figure out every peak and valley on a dyno chart. This is one of the reasons Dyno Dynamics recommends their 'Shoot Out' including many repeated runs. So you can review and compare the similar runs to see if those dips are anomalies or repeatable.

I would like to publicly apologize to Betim, BBI and Team Speed for post #7. My use of words and suggestion that the thread needed to be archived was rude and aggressive. I have followed threads at other forums that changed dramatically from start to finish, being pruned, edited and censored to support an obvious agenda. I've never seen that happen at TeamSpeed so I shouldn't have suggested it would.

Peace....!

 

Gator,

These Dyno dips were pointed out to me by someone extremely knowledgable on Dyno charts, so I just thought I would point them out.

 

Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much. Cheers GB

 

Im really beginning to think that you're a little touched in the head.

 

TighTT's ego.

I feel that ego is a thing that people have a huge problem with, unneccesarily. It is one of the first and loudest complaints I get when venturing into a new forum. I find all these complaints boring and uncontributory, detracting from the flow and constructive effort of the forum in general.

More to the point, I find that the people who complain the most about another's ego are those who have the most of it themselves. They feel threatened by the rival ego, and feel the need to deflate him.

This leads to needless flame wars and ruffled feelings, and little constructive effort. I personally see little difference between self-confidence and egoism, and believe there to be no difference at all. I think the proper method to deal with it is to completely ignore the egotistical statements, and focus instead of the merits of what that person has to say, until one can properly appreciate egoism and what it does for people.

I think egoism is a natural and healthy attitude in people, one to be encouraged. If it cannot be encouraged, it should at least be ignored. We all need to have our self-esteems stroked, and giving positive reactions instead of negative ones goes a long way towards building community and trust.

Witness the anime series Naruto, where any degree of egoism is expected and encouraged of the ninjas that populate Konoha. Yet Konoha is one of the most tightly knit communities you can find, bound by idealogy and comaradarie.

Surely you cannot read the writings of Maddox or Tucker Max and not have some sense of awe at their self-proclaimed awesomeness. They are awesome, whether we wish to acknowledge that or not, both having been able to amass a horde of people just waiting for their next piece.

If you have issues with arguments, please feel free to point out where and how you think they are wrong. But keep any purely reactionary arguments in your head for a little while before you air them out, will you? It will mean less wasted time for me and the rest of the group as I won't have to answer your pointless and non-constructive assertions.
__________________
The Hypocrisy-Charge Bias: accusing one’s political opponents of inconsistency or hypocrisy, but ignoring its equal application to one’s political friends. It's everywhere. It is committed by Democrats, Republicans, liberals, and conservatives.

Think about this before you make such an accusation.