Caymen for a mid-life middle class??
#16
Before I owned my current 981 Cayman S 2014, I owned a 986 Boxster S from 2003. That thing was pretty cheap (tho I overpaid for it). However I didn't do my homework before and hadn't bought preowned before. If I had I would have walked away from the particular car. It was yellow and I aptly named it lemon-head. Had an assortment of issues from clearly having been in some sort of accident prior, to electrical, water pump and other things. Most of it was still covered under a warranty tho so that was good as I didn't realize most of this at the time of purchase. (it had an extended warranty). When I purchased it, it needed a new clutch...that I knew ahead of time, but I took that as a good thing since I would know it was done and new and could do IMS at the same time for peace of mind.
There's a few points I want to make. First, make sure the car you are looking at is decent. Know how to check for respray/paint by feeling the panel edges. Have a proper PPI done by a place you pick. Ideally find a dealer you trust. If you can find a car at a Porsche dealer or CPO even better. I don't think the issue was 986 cars... it was the particular car I had bought. All those issues aside, it was actually fun to own, great to drive, and I felt right at home when I moved to a new car. It was a good foray into Porsche ownership and costs.
Which leads me to my second point. Realize that you are going to be paying the same at a dealer as if you bought a new Porsche. Basically what I realized was effectively I was paying the same for an oil change as say the guy who just bought a new 911 Turbo. Obviously you can find a good indi-mechanic and save some money. But with my car under warranty I opted to do at least some services at dealer. It hit me one day when I was like man, this car is cheaper than most peoples Honda Civics, but I'm paying $300-$400 for basic service. And my car is a lowly boxster 986 compared to that guys new 911 and we are basically spending the same amount of money. That's a fact. It's cheaper to service than Italian exotics, but it's still more expensive than any "normal" car. Tires also will be pretty similar in cost.
Hourly rate at a Porsche dealer will probably vary by location. But I would bet $120-$150/hr. So think about that as well. My clutch job on my 986 was priced the same at an Indi dealer as at the Dealership. Not super expensive. I think it was about $850 in parts about about $360 in service... add to that a medium "minor" service I did at the same time right after I got it at $650 and brake flush at $200 and my initial service plus clutch and all cost me about $2000. Not too bad. Other items were more costly. Altho again warranty saved me from spending anything myself. Water Pump - $800. Window Regulator $520. Radio and Alarm replacement $580. You get the idea...Like I said this particular car not so good.
Reality is that normal wear and tear items like Tires cost even more. But you can easily to pay $1200-$1800 for a nice set of tires potentially. And if brakes etc need doing that's another big cost. However you probably aren't replacing this often depending on how much you drive.
Which is the last point. I would say plan on somewhere around $1000-$1500 a year for budget. That may be more than you spend, but if something comes up, or you get a major or minor service... or get new tires etc...it won't be a surprise. Can you own a P-car for only a few hundred a year. Probably. I tend to put on miles, and get good tires. My initial 10k mile service on my new cayman was only $350. That was basically all I spent on my new car as far as maintenance goes in 2014....until near the end I dropped $2000 on new set of tires. Because I wanted better tires all around. In 2015 I spent about $1000 in service for the 17k mile service. Then in 2016 only $400 again except I had some flat tires I had to replace...twice. Then in 2017 again only $350 or so for basic service... but I just dropped in new Super Sport tires and new wheels. Again $$. I could have probably just done 2 tires and saved some money...
My suspicion is that you will probably have some items go on you to fix for between $500-$1000 here and there now and then. You'll have tire cost. Gas etc. I would figure out when the clutch was last done. Call a dealer get estimates for what they normally charge for Clutch replacement, Water pump replacement, Basic Service, Minor Service, Major Service (is there such a thing), and brakes. Figure out how soon or how often these items might go. Might be 10's of thousands of miles or years between for some of them like clutch... others will be once or twice a year. Then budget for that. And make sure you get the best car you can....don't skimp.
Last suggestion visit a Porsche dealership or PCA event. See if you can find an experienced person local who has a nose and can help you look at cars (assuming you are buying local). I had a really great experience right when I was selling my 986 with an older salesman at Livermore Porsche here in CA. He came out to take a look. Knew right off the bat what was wrong...and showed me how he knew it. He was like hey, if you buy another car, even different type, I'd be happy to take a look before you drop the $ to give you my opinion. (I was thinking about used R8's at the time). Anyhow, that sort of face to face advice can also be very useful.
Good luck. The reality is Porsches aren't cheap, but they're really not too bad. If you can stomach a bit over $1k or so a year I bet you will be pretty good, and for the flip side of the enjoyment, driving experience and camaraderie you'll have with other owners, it's really not bad. You can spend way more with mods, customization, track etc... but even stock P-cars are special.
There's a few points I want to make. First, make sure the car you are looking at is decent. Know how to check for respray/paint by feeling the panel edges. Have a proper PPI done by a place you pick. Ideally find a dealer you trust. If you can find a car at a Porsche dealer or CPO even better. I don't think the issue was 986 cars... it was the particular car I had bought. All those issues aside, it was actually fun to own, great to drive, and I felt right at home when I moved to a new car. It was a good foray into Porsche ownership and costs.
Which leads me to my second point. Realize that you are going to be paying the same at a dealer as if you bought a new Porsche. Basically what I realized was effectively I was paying the same for an oil change as say the guy who just bought a new 911 Turbo. Obviously you can find a good indi-mechanic and save some money. But with my car under warranty I opted to do at least some services at dealer. It hit me one day when I was like man, this car is cheaper than most peoples Honda Civics, but I'm paying $300-$400 for basic service. And my car is a lowly boxster 986 compared to that guys new 911 and we are basically spending the same amount of money. That's a fact. It's cheaper to service than Italian exotics, but it's still more expensive than any "normal" car. Tires also will be pretty similar in cost.
Hourly rate at a Porsche dealer will probably vary by location. But I would bet $120-$150/hr. So think about that as well. My clutch job on my 986 was priced the same at an Indi dealer as at the Dealership. Not super expensive. I think it was about $850 in parts about about $360 in service... add to that a medium "minor" service I did at the same time right after I got it at $650 and brake flush at $200 and my initial service plus clutch and all cost me about $2000. Not too bad. Other items were more costly. Altho again warranty saved me from spending anything myself. Water Pump - $800. Window Regulator $520. Radio and Alarm replacement $580. You get the idea...Like I said this particular car not so good.
Reality is that normal wear and tear items like Tires cost even more. But you can easily to pay $1200-$1800 for a nice set of tires potentially. And if brakes etc need doing that's another big cost. However you probably aren't replacing this often depending on how much you drive.
Which is the last point. I would say plan on somewhere around $1000-$1500 a year for budget. That may be more than you spend, but if something comes up, or you get a major or minor service... or get new tires etc...it won't be a surprise. Can you own a P-car for only a few hundred a year. Probably. I tend to put on miles, and get good tires. My initial 10k mile service on my new cayman was only $350. That was basically all I spent on my new car as far as maintenance goes in 2014....until near the end I dropped $2000 on new set of tires. Because I wanted better tires all around. In 2015 I spent about $1000 in service for the 17k mile service. Then in 2016 only $400 again except I had some flat tires I had to replace...twice. Then in 2017 again only $350 or so for basic service... but I just dropped in new Super Sport tires and new wheels. Again $$. I could have probably just done 2 tires and saved some money...
My suspicion is that you will probably have some items go on you to fix for between $500-$1000 here and there now and then. You'll have tire cost. Gas etc. I would figure out when the clutch was last done. Call a dealer get estimates for what they normally charge for Clutch replacement, Water pump replacement, Basic Service, Minor Service, Major Service (is there such a thing), and brakes. Figure out how soon or how often these items might go. Might be 10's of thousands of miles or years between for some of them like clutch... others will be once or twice a year. Then budget for that. And make sure you get the best car you can....don't skimp.
Last suggestion visit a Porsche dealership or PCA event. See if you can find an experienced person local who has a nose and can help you look at cars (assuming you are buying local). I had a really great experience right when I was selling my 986 with an older salesman at Livermore Porsche here in CA. He came out to take a look. Knew right off the bat what was wrong...and showed me how he knew it. He was like hey, if you buy another car, even different type, I'd be happy to take a look before you drop the $ to give you my opinion. (I was thinking about used R8's at the time). Anyhow, that sort of face to face advice can also be very useful.
Good luck. The reality is Porsches aren't cheap, but they're really not too bad. If you can stomach a bit over $1k or so a year I bet you will be pretty good, and for the flip side of the enjoyment, driving experience and camaraderie you'll have with other owners, it's really not bad. You can spend way more with mods, customization, track etc... but even stock P-cars are special.
#17
Flat 4 turbo is not being dropped. Not sure where he got that information, but it's not right. The next GT4/Spyder will be N/A flat 6 though, and that's exciting.
#19
Gotcha - thought you were talking about a new one.
In that sense - certainly. In fact, I did this exact thing with a 2008 model which was a "special edition." It was fully optioned and that's what I was buying (not the special edition).
So - back to basics. Let's identify the items which would cost you dearly:
Clutch isn't that bad and you can do the RMS at the same time. Everything else is a total loss. You have two options: Risk it or Insure it.
I chose to risk it. My IMS risk is priced at about $300 and that's what I'm worrying about.
Michael
In that sense - certainly. In fact, I did this exact thing with a 2008 model which was a "special edition." It was fully optioned and that's what I was buying (not the special edition).
So - back to basics. Let's identify the items which would cost you dearly:
- New Engine
- New Transmission
- Clutch
- RMS/IMS
Clutch isn't that bad and you can do the RMS at the same time. Everything else is a total loss. You have two options: Risk it or Insure it.
I chose to risk it. My IMS risk is priced at about $300 and that's what I'm worrying about.
Michael