Thoughts by a Ferrari dealer
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I have owned my 430 for a month and have 900 miles on it. I take it to any destination so long as there is ample parking and no security issues. It is no different then when I owned a Porsche.
Regarding the low mileage point, I tend to agree that earlier Ferrari models had reliability issues and owners typically owned several exotic cars thus the reason for low mileage. However, recent Ferrari models are very reliable and do want to be driven. The canard that Ferrari's today are unreliable is circulated by people not able to own one.
Regarding the low mileage point, I tend to agree that earlier Ferrari models had reliability issues and owners typically owned several exotic cars thus the reason for low mileage. However, recent Ferrari models are very reliable and do want to be driven. The canard that Ferrari's today are unreliable is circulated by people not able to own one.
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Originally posted by nberry
I have owned my 430 for a month and have 900 miles on it. I take it to any destination so long as there is ample parking and no security issues. It is no different then when I owned a Porsche.
Regarding the low mileage point, I tend to agree that earlier Ferrari models had reliability issues and owners typically owned several exotic cars thus the reason for low mileage. However, recent Ferrari models are very reliable and do want to be driven. The canard that Ferrari's today are unreliable is circulated by people not able to own one.
I have owned my 430 for a month and have 900 miles on it. I take it to any destination so long as there is ample parking and no security issues. It is no different then when I owned a Porsche.
Regarding the low mileage point, I tend to agree that earlier Ferrari models had reliability issues and owners typically owned several exotic cars thus the reason for low mileage. However, recent Ferrari models are very reliable and do want to be driven. The canard that Ferrari's today are unreliable is circulated by people not able to own one.
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Maint cost is what prevents me from getting into an F car. I think they are not unreasonably priced to buy, just pricy to own. I tend to work on my own cars and if DYI doesn't affect resell, I'd consider a F360 or 430.
For mileage, I think a few hundred mi/yr is the average. These are pleasure cars driven once a month typically on a sunday run within 25 mi range.
If cars are driven more (7-10k mi/yr), the maint cost will seem lmore justified but you'll trade resell. It's never easy isn't it?
Hard owning a Ferrari
For mileage, I think a few hundred mi/yr is the average. These are pleasure cars driven once a month typically on a sunday run within 25 mi range.
If cars are driven more (7-10k mi/yr), the maint cost will seem lmore justified but you'll trade resell. It's never easy isn't it?
Hard owning a Ferrari
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Originally posted by nberry
I have owned my 430 for a month and have 900 miles on it. I take it to any destination so long as there is ample parking and no security issues. It is no different then when I owned a Porsche.
Regarding the low mileage point, I tend to agree that earlier Ferrari models had reliability issues and owners typically owned several exotic cars thus the reason for low mileage. However, recent Ferrari models are very reliable and do want to be driven. The canard that Ferrari's today are unreliable is circulated by people not able to own one.
I have owned my 430 for a month and have 900 miles on it. I take it to any destination so long as there is ample parking and no security issues. It is no different then when I owned a Porsche.
Regarding the low mileage point, I tend to agree that earlier Ferrari models had reliability issues and owners typically owned several exotic cars thus the reason for low mileage. However, recent Ferrari models are very reliable and do want to be driven. The canard that Ferrari's today are unreliable is circulated by people not able to own one.
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Originally posted by Ferrarislave
Not true, There are alot of 360's and 355's with 40k+ miles on them. I have seen a 2002 360 Spyder with 86k on the odometer. Why do most F-car's have such low miles, well people baby them, I would baby a Porsche a Lambo or any other car the same way id baby a Ferrari. Thats just me though, many people have lots of other cars and sports cars they drive and don't really drive the F-car much. Alot are scared of resale, the more miles the less their worth. I knew a gentlemen who had a 360 spyder drove it for a year then got more then he paid for it at the years end.
A few F430's where going close to 300k a few months back, I honestly don't think there worth it, and neither does Ferrari they sell their cars for 180-200k, and the U.S dealers jack up the price, because they know they will get it.
Cars are set up to run under certain parameters.
The Ferrari comes with a thicker oil and spark plugs designed to run in a very hot engine. The car does not like to run hot it is just set up to be run hot as on the track at high RPM and high load conditions. The wheel bearings probably use thicker grease.
There is wear and tear on the engine driving around town. You are starting frequently as in short trips to the restaurant. The engine just gets up to temperature then you shut it off. The spark plugs slowly foul. The cats spend a lot of their life at a lower temperature causing premature wear. The internal friction of the thicker oil takes it's toll - 90% of engine wear occurs at start up.
The car would be fine and last longer if it was driven every day by some old, slow driving lady. This assumes all the parameters were set up for that type of driving - hotter plugs, thinner lubricants, more restrictive cats, et cetera.
Ferrari figures that you will track the car so they set it up for the track. There is nothing you have to do different. You can almost buy the car off the lot and go racing.
The problem is that most cars are actually driven in town. People get in the cars and step on the gas and rev it up before it gets up to temperature reeking havoc on all the internals. This is why cars are so easily ruined with low compression, bad cats and the like. It is the abusive ownership that ruins a car not the milage, high or low. Low milage cars appropriately maintained for that would be fine also.
Some brands of cars (like Ferraris) at least have the stigma of being unreliable, and that is probably due to how they get driven by a lot of the owners, other cars (like Porsches) are proclaimed to have great reliability... probably because they get driven by their owners.
Not true, There are alot of 360's and 355's with 40k+ miles on them. I have seen a 2002 360 Spyder with 86k on the odometer. Why do most F-car's have such low miles, well people baby them, I would baby a Porsche a Lambo or any other car the same way id baby a Ferrari. Thats just me though, many people have lots of other cars and sports cars they drive and don't really drive the F-car much. Alot are scared of resale, the more miles the less their worth. I knew a gentlemen who had a 360 spyder drove it for a year then got more then he paid for it at the years end.
A few F430's where going close to 300k a few months back, I honestly don't think there worth it, and neither does Ferrari they sell their cars for 180-200k, and the U.S dealers jack up the price, because they know they will get it.
Cars are set up to run under certain parameters.
The Ferrari comes with a thicker oil and spark plugs designed to run in a very hot engine. The car does not like to run hot it is just set up to be run hot as on the track at high RPM and high load conditions. The wheel bearings probably use thicker grease.
There is wear and tear on the engine driving around town. You are starting frequently as in short trips to the restaurant. The engine just gets up to temperature then you shut it off. The spark plugs slowly foul. The cats spend a lot of their life at a lower temperature causing premature wear. The internal friction of the thicker oil takes it's toll - 90% of engine wear occurs at start up.
The car would be fine and last longer if it was driven every day by some old, slow driving lady. This assumes all the parameters were set up for that type of driving - hotter plugs, thinner lubricants, more restrictive cats, et cetera.
Ferrari figures that you will track the car so they set it up for the track. There is nothing you have to do different. You can almost buy the car off the lot and go racing.
The problem is that most cars are actually driven in town. People get in the cars and step on the gas and rev it up before it gets up to temperature reeking havoc on all the internals. This is why cars are so easily ruined with low compression, bad cats and the like. It is the abusive ownership that ruins a car not the milage, high or low. Low milage cars appropriately maintained for that would be fine also.
Some brands of cars (like Ferraris) at least have the stigma of being unreliable, and that is probably due to how they get driven by a lot of the owners, other cars (like Porsches) are proclaimed to have great reliability... probably because they get driven by their owners.
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Originally posted by 2thfixr
Why not just use synthetic oil? Don't they already use synthetic oil anyways? Who cares about plugs, even at $100 a pop, they don't foul every month. Change them every year and it still would not be a big deal. What you are saying makes a lot of sense but I don't recall hearing about issues even related to what you are saying. Specifically, failures due to thicker grease, thicker oil, or cats designed for racing.
Here is a perfect example... Shawn C posted this a while back
"On my way to Shelton Ferrari, Total bill:
14 Thousand Two Hundred dollars!!!!!!!
yes, I said $14,232.00 !!!
After only 15 thousand miles total, Car needed New clutch, Timing belt, Alternator, Throttle bearing, Timing variators, and a Broken Tentioner. I brought it in for a coolant leak, This is what I ended up with! Bill was not supposed to exceed $8,000.00 ....WTF!
Car sat there for over a week and a half, I could puke right now
**** FERRARI!"
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...&highlight=360
If you go to the thread and look specifically at the repair invoice, it looks like a lot of normal maintenance but also some unusually high maintenance costs associated with normal wear and tear.
It's not like he blew seals or had bearing issues or even cat problems. It was a clutch issue and a normal 3 year timing belt replacement + some misc items not related to lubricants.
Why not just use synthetic oil? Don't they already use synthetic oil anyways? Who cares about plugs, even at $100 a pop, they don't foul every month. Change them every year and it still would not be a big deal. What you are saying makes a lot of sense but I don't recall hearing about issues even related to what you are saying. Specifically, failures due to thicker grease, thicker oil, or cats designed for racing.
Here is a perfect example... Shawn C posted this a while back
"On my way to Shelton Ferrari, Total bill:
14 Thousand Two Hundred dollars!!!!!!!
yes, I said $14,232.00 !!!
After only 15 thousand miles total, Car needed New clutch, Timing belt, Alternator, Throttle bearing, Timing variators, and a Broken Tentioner. I brought it in for a coolant leak, This is what I ended up with! Bill was not supposed to exceed $8,000.00 ....WTF!
Car sat there for over a week and a half, I could puke right now
**** FERRARI!"
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...&highlight=360
If you go to the thread and look specifically at the repair invoice, it looks like a lot of normal maintenance but also some unusually high maintenance costs associated with normal wear and tear.
It's not like he blew seals or had bearing issues or even cat problems. It was a clutch issue and a normal 3 year timing belt replacement + some misc items not related to lubricants.
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Originally posted by isaacly
...<snip>... i've personally never driven a manual ferrari but i know ppl who have, and its not like your regular clutch. .<snip>
...<snip>... i've personally never driven a manual ferrari but i know ppl who have, and its not like your regular clutch. .<snip>
<snip> if it's not driven properly or taken care of the right way, couple thousand miles and you can be in for a major transmission repair.<snip>>
2. drive **** out of car
3. let car cool down
4. turn car off.
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I have seen several 348's with close to 100,000 miles on them, a few 2002 360's with 65-70 thosand miles on them. Most F-cars are just bought driven for a few years, by driven I mean garaged, and then sold. The biggest reason for not being driven is the fear of the price taking a plunge due to milages, most F-car buyers consider 6k+ on a couple year old car, alot of miles.
Kind of silly if you ask me, these machines are ment to be driven. The garage queen thing seems to be more a USA thing, and not so much in Europe, but sitll it is present there as well.
Kind of silly if you ask me, these machines are ment to be driven. The garage queen thing seems to be more a USA thing, and not so much in Europe, but sitll it is present there as well.
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