Originally Posted by aracerx

my previous posting must have the following addition.........NOW, THE factory (motorsports) no longer offer the "green" pad for DE users. there is only one choice for that particular rotor from Porsche for pad material. Given the expense of changing rotors due to poor choice in pads, dictates a clear decision to use only OEM stock pads.

Originally Posted by Izzone

The p50 squeal once used...bad

Originally Posted by gt34me

Gen II's PCCB are fine for DE's, those that Race, TT or run hard should swap for good Brembo or Cup Steel setup. Those that run DE's for years on PCCB's and say there is no wear are not running the same lap times as others. If you are running say 48's at Laguna you are fine, running 41's or lower than you are Not fine. Big difference in running 90% versus 99% in tire wear and brake wear. Compare your times to others to see..

Originally Posted by Gary II

Hands down...the OEM PCCB brakes are a better choice than any of the aftermarket carbon ceramic offerings. None of the companies selling these aftermarket ceramic kits manufacturers their own discs. Most are coming from their manufacturers who do little to no testing on the actual vehicles that the brake kit will be intended for, and then selling them to third party brake kit companies who are even less equipped to handle proper lab and on road testing to ensure the proper results for performance, longevity, and safety.

Quite a few companies seem to be in a race to be the first company to market with an aftermarket carbon ceramic brake kit. What most don't realize is how difficult of a technology this is to get right for customers like us, who's cars are constantly evolving as we add more modifications, and who's usage can vary from a track event one weekend to a road trip the next, or to and from work for months at a time. As we all know, even Porsche has had issues with the first and second generation PCCB's from SGL and you'd be hard pressed to find a company who would have spent more time and money on research and development to get this right.

Originally Posted by 512bb

Rockets have brakes :-) Just pulling your leg. I do not have a definitive example but in talking to a few dealers around my area they all unanimously said that they have seen Gen I PCCBs fail (essentially break/crack). They could not give any examples of Gen IIs failing.

If I am not mistaken, I believe one of the biggest issues with after market ceramics comes from the way they are cross drilled. I believe it's a very delicate and tricky process and if not done correctly can lead to cracks.

I hope that someone with more knowledge than me can confirm or update my post as I will definitely be looking for PCCBs on the next purchase.

Cheers.

Originally Posted by Fabryce@GMGRacing

Gentlemen:

There seem to be a lot of myths as to reliability of PCCB's under track use under extreme conditions:

1. PCCB's or ceramics are better than any steel rotor out there under severe braking.
This is a proven fact!

2. Porsche's OEM PCCB's can last as long as any NON PCCB rotor and will when used correctly.

3. The failure of PCCB's is often the caused by the user and not the actual part failing.


Why do they fail or pit?

1. Often times the rotor is damaged by someone swapping wheels at the track or home and not being careful. The rotor is ceramic and it is very easily damaged by a wheel falling on it. This often happens on the track when wheels are swapped. Half the time people dont even know they have done this.

Consider this ........ You eat off of fine china which is porcelain. It with stands high temperatures and use for years. Yet if you take a knife or a sharp object and hit the edge you will chip or fracture the porcelain and weaken the material.
Well the same thing happens when you drop a wheel on a PCCB or ceramic rotor.



2. The optimum operating temperature of ceramic brakes is very high. 9 out of 10 times the brakes are not brought up to temperature correctly. If the rotor is heated up and then cooled down and heated up and then cooled down this causes the material in the rotor to break down. You can actually see the fibers braking apart. ( some of you call this pitting )
While this is also a normal wear with a ceramic rotor over time it is also sped up with this super heating and super cooling. And not managing the brakes under track conditions.
For a ceramic rotor to operate properly a specific temperature must be maintained..

Lastly many people think that ceramics are indestructable for some reason.

They are designed to wear and be replaced just like any other steel rotor. They will last much longer than any other steel rotor under EXTREME conditions. ( SEE F1 and LMP cars for example) and yes these teams also replace them often.

A rotor is a serviceable wear item, even if its ceramic, it just depends on the use.

You also need to consider the brake pad material you are using with the ceramic rotor.
The factory equipped pads that come on PCCB rotors are not for racing purposes and a proper ceramic racing compound must be used under track conditions. Also the bedding of the pads is very important and if not done properly it will eat into the rotor very quickly.

.

Someone also stated that the "Cup Cars" use steel rotors . That is only partially true - The cup cars use steel rotors in the U.S. series, but in European series and other series throughout the world ceramic equipped cars are run and run with great success.

I wish we could use "ceramic" rotors in our series..


So consider these "facts" before you make a decision on ceramic rotors. They are in fact superior to any steel rotor on the market. Especially under racing conditions.


We have over 10k track miles on our GT2 with first generation PCCB's on the car and NO problems with the rotors.

Originally Posted by 512bb

Rockets have brakes :-)