GT3/GT2 Performance and Track Discussion on the Porsche GT3 and GT2

Sequential Shifter

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Old Aug 1, 2009 | 02:58 AM
  #16  
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Old Aug 1, 2009 | 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by NorthVan997C2S
You can do no lift upshifting, as soon as your hand touches the shifter, the computer cuts the gas and you push forward and the car will shift to the next gear. You still need to use the clutch and heel toe for down shifting (by pulling back on the shifter).

GMG and FBL sells conversion kits.
Sounds like you are talking about PDK, when you push forward to up shift, and pulling back to down shift..
 
Old Aug 1, 2009 | 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by analogmike
Upshifts ARE fast but not so easy, in the higher gears it's easy to crunch the box if you don't hit it just right.
Sounds like you're doing it wrong. It's nearly impossible to mis-shift in any sequential, in my experience. Regardless of whether or not you have no-lift shift capability. Also, in higher gears it's easier to shift as there is less torque multiplication.
 
Old Aug 1, 2009 | 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by ScottKelly911
For example let's say to shift a normal car takes 1/2 second to shift vs 1/4 second to shift with a sequential transmission. You're on a track that takes 60 shifts total (both up and down shifting) per lap. The sequential is going to save you 15 seconds in shifting alone, now multiply it by thirty laps for the entire race and the benefits become pretty obvious.
Time spent downshifting can be ignored.
 
Old Aug 1, 2009 | 03:22 PM
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What do you mean? Is it that with perfect heel/toe action, there is nothing to be gained in completing the shift more quickly, getting your feet aligned and back on the required pedal? Otherwise, it seems that there would be no value in heel/toe at all.

Originally Posted by mousecatcher
Time spent downshifting can be ignored.
 
Old Aug 1, 2009 | 05:24 PM
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i said nothing about heel/toe.

you need to consider my statement in context. the math in the comment i was responding to included the extra time spent downshifting a non-sequential as part of the lap time you would gain by using a sequential. that's incorrect since you are on the brakes when downshifting and so the time it takes to downshift doesn't come into play when considering lap times. and in fact, an h-pattern can be faster to downshift since you can skip gears. but again, this is irrelevant to lap times.
 

Last edited by mousecatcher; Aug 1, 2009 at 05:26 PM.
Old Aug 1, 2009 | 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by mousecatcher
Sounds like you're doing it wrong. It's nearly impossible to mis-shift in any sequential, in my experience. Regardless of whether or not you have no-lift shift capability. Also, in higher gears it's easier to shift as there is less torque multiplication.
That would seem so, but with the 997 GT3 cup trans it's not so easy to upshift correctly in the higher gears. Ask the guy who builds all the ALMS RSR and Grand-am GT3 cup gearboxes, Brian Copans, who also rebuilt mine twice :

The difficult shifts to 5th or 6th are typical of an 08 or 09 trans due to the large rpm drop 4th to 5th and 5th to 6th. this is also the cause of the bent main-shafts.
It seems that with a flubbed 4th to 5th shift the pinion shaft recoils to the point were it engages 2nd gear when you are engaging 5th and sometimes 6th gear.
Extra care must be taken to cleanly select 5th and 6th.
Brian BMC&G
 
Old Aug 1, 2009 | 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by mousecatcher
i said nothing about heel/toe.

you need to consider my statement in context. the math in the comment i was responding to included the extra time spent downshifting a non-sequential as part of the lap time you would gain by using a sequential. that's incorrect since you are on the brakes when downshifting and so the time it takes to downshift doesn't come into play when considering lap times. and in fact, an h-pattern can be faster to downshift since you can skip gears. but again, this is irrelevant to lap times.
I see what you're saying and in some maybe even most applications you're correct about that when it comes to downshifting. However, with a sequential transmission, there are times where simply downshifting is sufficient to slow the car down enough for the turn and you don't need to use the brakes at all. In those cases you will pick up time both with the shift as well as eliminating the need to brake for that particular turn. Then take into consideration that a sequential also eliminates the chance of missing a gear which is quite common with the 5 to 4th or 3rd to 2nd gear shifts.
 
Old Aug 2, 2009 | 12:39 AM
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Originally Posted by analogmike
The difficult shifts to 5th or 6th are typical of an 08 or 09 trans due to the large rpm drop 4th to 5th and 5th to 6th.
ahh that makes sense. thanks for the info. obviously i haven't driven a gt3 cup car.

EDIT: but i would love to!
 

Last edited by mousecatcher; Aug 2, 2009 at 12:43 AM.
Old Aug 2, 2009 | 12:41 AM
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Originally Posted by ScottKelly911
I see what you're saying and in some maybe even most applications you're correct about that when it comes to downshifting. However, with a sequential transmission, there are times where simply downshifting is sufficient to slow the car down enough for the turn and you don't need to use the brakes at all. In those cases you will pick up time both with the shift as well as eliminating the need to brake for that particular turn.
true, but that's a rare corner.

Then take into consideration that a sequential also eliminates the chance of missing a gear which is quite common with the 5 to 4th or 3rd to 2nd gear shifts.
yup, that's one of the major benefits of a sequential gearbox. but not a contributor to lap times which is what i was referring to when i said you can ignore time spent downshifting when considering lap time improvement.
 
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