GT3/GT2 Performance and Track Discussion on the Porsche GT3 and GT2

Rear bumper hitch mount is not a good idea ... legally

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Old Dec 21, 2009 | 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by NorthVan
+1, all you need now is a pit team to change the wheels, and fill the tank.
 
Old Dec 21, 2009 | 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by rassfan
now that my friends is, by definition, hardcore. i like it.



 
Old Dec 21, 2009 | 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Harold
Luckily for us Singapore trackers, there are services available for storage of rims and tires at Sepang race track which is the track we frequent....
unfortunately (or fortunately) for norcal, we have 3 tracks in the vicinity. so that means must have one set in each place.
 
Old Dec 21, 2009 | 07:38 PM
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I got the latest information on the updated "hidden hitch" system by the same manufacturer shown on my first post. It recognize the fact that GT3/RS rear bumper is not meant to haul so it does the next best thing by beefing up the two bumper bracket mounts on each end of the car and add a custom sandwich plates that secure on the center part of the bumper bracket for the hitch receiver as shown below. So what is the price of this hidden hitch set up? ... are you sitting down? Good, It's jaw dropping $985.08 not including shipping and CA tax if that apply to you.

Holy mother of batman! That is one expensive steel! Why so expensive? He could not give me a good reason other than stating that he had to buy a large sheet metal to fashion the hitch and "it" has to sit on the shelf for a long time before someone buys it. Well, I am sure the price will be very different if it's for a Lotus or BMW. Folks, you are seeing special Porsche tax at work at it's finest. I have no interest in hurting this guy's business but I could not believe my ears when he said $985.08!?? I sure hope he sells other stuff because at this price, it's going to sit on the shelf for a very long time.

One major problem with this hidden hitch design is the two beef up bumper bracket support. Yes it provide more rigidity when towing but you are at risk of damaging the frame of the body if someone hit your rear bumper. The OEM bumper bracket supports are meant to give way during an impact to absorb energy and minimize damage to frame. These beef up bumper brackets support will push into the frame before it start crumpling to absorb impact. If I ever chose to use my rear bumper to tow, I will only use the bumper brackets sandwich plates and leave my OEM bumper bracket support alone ... IMHO

OEM bumper bracket support in the middle and beef up aftermarket ones on the outside



Sandwich bumper bracket plates and ball mount



 
Old Dec 21, 2009 | 10:55 PM
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From your pics, I would not tow anything with a 997. A chain is only as good as the weakest link and it is obvious with the stock brackets, it's is not designed for a tension load, and the max load will be equivalent to the cross sectional area of the thin tube metal along the length of each weld x 4, which I'm eyeballing to be 15 mm x 1 mm x 4, or a total of 60 sq mm, or less than a 10 mm bolt. The replacement brackets will allow a bit more tension load, but I still deem the design insufficient. The other problem is the tow bracket's weakest link is the single bolt that holds the hitch bracket depends on the cross sectional area of that bolt, which looks way too small. And although it's hard to tell from the pic, it looks like a low grade 5 type bolt. Bottom line is the manufacturer is clearly no mechanical or structural engineer, and towing anything more than a Radio Flyer, with what is shown is just an accident waiting to happen.
 
Old Dec 22, 2009 | 02:26 AM
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Originally Posted by mikymu



Sandwich bumper bracket plates and ball mount




These three bits are nearing 1k? I think I need to quit my job and just build these little bits. A few little tack welds, and a little bit of cut steel? That is insane. There is a massive mark-up on that. Having spent 8months as a shop ***** in a welding shop, I can tell you that as a fact. Large minimum order is hogwash. I built myself a roof rack out of HSS, and it cost me $50 in Materials, and that was because I went for the best steel I could get, as well it was only $50. That was a simple 10ft of box tubing. There is maybe an hour worth of work in those little pieces. I would know, as I made more brackets than I could shake a stick at.
 
Old Dec 22, 2009 | 03:00 AM
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Old Dec 22, 2009 | 05:39 AM
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I wish I had a picture, but at one point I had my 4 track tires and my dad's 4 track tires (from a C6 Corvette mind you) all stuffed into the back of my GTI. Most people wouldn't believe you can fit all that in there, but you can. I now have a trailer as well...
 
Old Dec 22, 2009 | 09:47 AM
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mike

man up and get yourself a used truck (go for less than 10k for a nice diesel pick up that will last forever) and a trailer regular steel trailer used for another $2k. You will have spent under $15k and save yourself the hassle.

i am going through this with my m3. i really don't wanna be driving the car, but i live in an apartment and don't have space for a trailer and truck, so i was considering a roof rack. But thats only for tires.

A very important point of trailering a car is the knowledge that you have a ride home in case you have a booboo at the track so you can drive the car harder. Obviously some drivers are not ready to walk away from a car crash and write it off, at that point, you have to reevaluate your driving style. But i think a truck/trailer is the best route -- considering you prob dropped 150k on the car, having a truck and trailer should be an option that porsche offers!

im gonna wait for a house to get myself into a truck/trailer.
 
Old Dec 23, 2009 | 02:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve W
From your pics, I would not tow anything with a 997. A chain is only as good as the weakest link and it is obvious with the stock brackets, it's is not designed for a tension load, and the max load will be equivalent to the cross sectional area of the thin tube metal along the length of each weld x 4, which I'm eyeballing to be 15 mm x 1 mm x 4, or a total of 60 sq mm, or less than a 10 mm bolt. The replacement brackets will allow a bit more tension load, but I still deem the design insufficient. The other problem is the tow bracket's weakest link is the single bolt that holds the hitch bracket depends on the cross sectional area of that bolt, which looks way too small. And although it's hard to tell from the pic, it looks like a low grade 5 type bolt. Bottom line is the manufacturer is clearly no mechanical or structural engineer, and towing anything more than a Radio Flyer, with what is shown is just an accident waiting to happen.
agree

Originally Posted by bonfire
These three bits are nearing 1k? I think I need to quit my job and just build these little bits. A few little tack welds, and a little bit of cut steel? That is insane. There is a massive mark-up on that. Having spent 8months as a shop ***** in a welding shop, I can tell you that as a fact. Large minimum order is hogwash. I built myself a roof rack out of HSS, and it cost me $50 in Materials, and that was because I went for the best steel I could get, as well it was only $50. That was a simple 10ft of box tubing. There is maybe an hour worth of work in those little pieces. I would know, as I made more brackets than I could shake a stick at.
LOL

I did not think the material and labor will warrant over $150 ... $980 is a real stretch plus it's not a safe design

I don't want to buy another truck or trailer just so I can haul my RS with R-compound tires. I think it's a waste of money and space to park and store the truck/trailer. There got to be other easier way to get the tire/wheel to the track ... maybe I can use Santa's sled being Christmas and all
 
Old Dec 23, 2009 | 01:32 PM
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This is my setup on my C2S. I too, clearly use my car and is not a "garage queen" [this is not necessarily a bad thing, why are people sensitive about this]?

Tires work great on the roof despite this getting close to the weight capacity. I've hauled R-Compounds on many different roofs.

I love the the hitch setup.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the 997 GT3 does NOT have the integrated roof rack mounts?

So, my entire reply may be moot, other than >>>> I'M A FAN OF THE HITCH!

 
Old Dec 23, 2009 | 01:50 PM
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Yoops,

The hitch that I purchased is basically a tow ball welded to the towhook that comes with our cars. When needed I can remove the licence plate (may drill a hole in it) and just screw the hitch into the rear bumper. Quite honestly i would not trust it if I hadn't seen it used for years and years. I will take a picture when I get the trailer back, I left it with a friend to widen the tire rack to 48"
 
Old Dec 23, 2009 | 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by KK Moto
This is my setup on my C2S. I too, clearly use my car and is not a "garage queen" [this is not necessarily a bad thing, why are people sensitive about this]?

Tires work great on the roof despite this getting close to the weight capacity. I've hauled R-Compounds on many different roofs.

I love the the hitch setup.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the 997 GT3 does NOT have the integrated roof rack mounts?

So, my entire reply may be moot, other than >>>> I'M A FAN OF THE HITCH!
Roof rack is the other option if hitch does not work out

Originally Posted by ErikG
Yoops,

The hitch that I purchased is basically a tow ball welded to the towhook that comes with our cars. When needed I can remove the licence plate (may drill a hole in it) and just screw the hitch into the rear bumper. Quite honestly i would not trust it if I hadn't seen it used for years and years. I will take a picture when I get the trailer back, I left it with a friend to widen the tire rack to 48"
That was something I came up with - a tow hitch receiver mount directly to the tow hook - and was "kindly" reminded by my friend to not use it in case it cause accident etc. Do check it often and make sure there is no signs of crack or metal fatigue.
 
Old May 11, 2010 | 05:31 PM
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So you guys are saying that the rated towing capacity of a Porsche GT3 is what ?
 
Old May 11, 2010 | 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by mikymu
After searching for options to haul R compound tires to the track, I have concluded that the rear bumper bracket hitch mount shown below is not a good idea for both safety and legal reasons. Why? First of all, towing hitch are suppose to mount directly to the body to ensure maximum structural rigidity while towing.
You must have meant to the frame, obviously! Nothing mounted to the body would be secure.

Anyway, I disagree. A class 1 hitch (bumper hitch, the mount in question) is fine for towing a small tire trailer that doesn't even have brakes.

While our front and rear bumper brackets have receiver for towing hook and rated to at least handle the weight of the car but it is not meant for handling stress from towing and it is not tested or rated for towing either.
That is correct. The so-called tow hook is designed for recovery, not actually for towing.

I don't think my umbrella policy can cover multi vehicle crash caused by my untested illegal home made hitch - worst yet what will happen if people are hurt? My legal minded friends took a look at this hitch - while ingenious - told me to run the other way and never use it to tow anything on the road.
I think that's just unfamiliarity with towing talking. It's a valid class 1 hitch and those little tire trailers are just class 1 trailers.

Originally Posted by mikymu
I got the latest information on the updated "hidden hitch" system by the same manufacturer shown on my first post. It recognize the fact that GT3/RS rear bumper is not meant to haul so it does the next best thing by beefing up the two bumper bracket mounts on each end of the car and add a custom sandwich plates that secure on the center part of the bumper bracket for the hitch receiver as shown below.
Now that is something I would worry about using. Not legally, but safety wise. The bumper sections are designed to take a certain load and by making those brackets stronger you are changing the way the bumper works, perhaps negatively.

Legally, you will be just as liable as with the other setup, although again I personally would not be concerned about it.
 


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