Road & Track 2014 Porsche GT3 First Drive Review
#16
04-30-2013, 05:05 PM
Did the Ferrari community lash out with the coming of the first F1 gearbox on the 355 F1? Manuals are so rare in ferraris these days... I don't believe it's offered on the 458. I have lots of seat time in ferraris and I actually prefer the paddles... It's just a different experience.
#18
04-30-2013, 05:36 PM
Did the Ferrari community lash out with the coming of the first F1 gearbox on the 355 F1? Manuals are so rare in ferraris these days... I don't believe it's offered on the 458. I have lots of seat time in ferraris and I actually prefer the paddles... It's just a different experience.
Only dual clutches in all Ferraris now, right? One transmission = more R&D can get poured into it = better product across the entire brand. (I believe, as of now, there are two different versions of the dual clutch trans in their cars)
I can't see driving a McLaren MP4-12C or 458 Italia and think,"Man, this is boring."
Anyone?
#19
04-30-2013, 07:39 PM
This.
Only dual clutches in all Ferraris now, right? One transmission = more R&D can get poured into it = better product across the entire brand. (I believe, as of now, there are two different versions of the dual clutch trans in their cars)
I can't see driving a McLaren MP4-12C or 458 Italia and think,"Man, this is boring."
Anyone?
Only dual clutches in all Ferraris now, right? One transmission = more R&D can get poured into it = better product across the entire brand. (I believe, as of now, there are two different versions of the dual clutch trans in their cars)
I can't see driving a McLaren MP4-12C or 458 Italia and think,"Man, this is boring."
Anyone?
I have track time in a new 458 and I can assure you it's anything but boring. I find all the comments comical about this new GT3. The car is going to be amazing and the tranny is going to be great. I liked someone's comment on this subject saying, "if you think going to be too boring you're not driving fast enough"
If you push a car like this to its limits you won't be sitting mid turn wishing you had a manual. And let's be real about how many people are even good enough to push a car like this to its limits It will be nice to not have people on the track missing gears, over revving engines, etc...Too many people bashing with no experience driving the car yet.
Last edited by RyanWoon; 04-30-2013 at 07:43 PM.
#20
04-30-2013, 10:43 PM
The problem is not with the cars being boring on the track at speed, or whether people will or won't have the talent to drive to the potential of the cars, in fact just the opposite. It is how fun the cars are to drive the rest of the time, when just driving on the street, when one can't drive "fast enough", or when driving within one's limits, rather than at the car's limits, on the track.
After all, the fellow that wrote the article is from Road and Track and has exposure to all sorts of cars, and yet he feels the same way most of those resisting a move entirely to PDK seem to feel.
After all, the fellow that wrote the article is from Road and Track and has exposure to all sorts of cars, and yet he feels the same way most of those resisting a move entirely to PDK seem to feel.
#21
04-30-2013, 10:55 PM
The problem is not with the cars being boring on the track at speed, or whether people will or won't have the talent to drive to the potential of the cars, in fact just the opposite. It is how fun the cars are to drive the rest of the time, when just driving on the street, when one can't drive "fast enough", or when driving within one's limits, rather than at the car's limits, on the track.
After all, the fellow that wrote the article is from Road and Track and has exposure to all sorts of cars, and yet he feels the same way most of those resisting a move entirely to PDK seem to feel.
After all, the fellow that wrote the article is from Road and Track and has exposure to all sorts of cars, and yet he feels the same way most of those resisting a move entirely to PDK seem to feel.
Porsche did the right thing and needs to keep up with the times. Technology is always going to progress and this is just another evolution that will continue to get better. There are a lot of sports cars, world class sports cars that are DCT only and now the GT3 is another.
Last edited by RyanWoon; 04-30-2013 at 11:08 PM.
#22
04-30-2013, 11:22 PM
Agree with the author. First time I have no interest getting a new GT3.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-revi...911-gt3-review
Exclusive First Drive: 2014 Porsche 911 GT3
Tradition and progress collide.
By Jason Cammisa April 29, 2013 / Photos by Tobias Hutzler
At this spring's Geneva motor show, there were crowds fighting to snap pictures of the newest fast cars from Lamborghini, Ferrari, and McLaren. Over at the Porsche stand, a drop-dead gorgeous 911 GT3 sat in relative solitude, receiving only passing, disapproving glances.
The proverbial pitchfork-wielding Porsche purists weren't pissed just because the new car no longer uses the Le Mans-winning Mezger engine of previous GT3s. No, the nail in the newest Porsche's coffin of public opinion is that it will be available only with an automatic transmission. Which is, by the way, no different from the crowd-pleasers over at Lamborghini, Ferrari, and McLaren.
"I don't get this Stone Age idea about what a 911 should be," says Andreas Preuninger, the man responsible for Porsche's GT cars, at Porsche's rain-dampened proving grounds the next day. "With the first GT3, they were practically throwing rocks at me because it didn't have an automated-manual transmission, which was where all the hype was at the time. But those transmissions weren't very good. Now, the GT3 gets a perfect [dual-clutch automatic], and everyone is screaming for the manual."
We admit that, this time, we were part of the screaming. The GT3 has always been the 911 that offered the least of what techno-crazed Germans would call "progress," but as a result, it led the sports-car world in terms of driving experience. It was the rawest, purest expression of everything that defines the 911—right down to its detuned race motor and wrist breaker of a manual shift lever.
"Ugh, God, you're one of them!" says Preuninger, rolling his eyes. "Just shut up and drive the thing."
The new GT3 starts up with a bark no less intense than that of the old car. The interior buzzes, both literally and figuratively, at idle. The variable-stiffness magnetorheological engine mounts are clearly not tuned for comfort. When you start out from a stop, there's an overabundance of revs, noise, and clutch slippage. Our test car is a preproduction prototype, but if Porsche has any sense, the transmission's programming will stay exactly like this.
Moving off, as you're focusing on the clutch engagement, something else grabs your attention: The steering snaps to life. This doesn't happen in a regular 911, with which the GT3 shares its steering hardware. It took Preuninger's team more than two years of programming work before he was happy with the electrically assisted steering; he wanted the driver to feel everything the car's tie rods experience. This is doubly good news, as it means the GT3 has steering reminiscent of older Porsches, but it's also an indication that there's hope for the regular, numb-helmed 911. And the Boxster/Cayman twins, which use similar equipment.
Cruising at U.S.-highway speeds on Porsche's track, the GT3's steering isn't quite as talkative as that of a 997. Still, given how distant the steering in the base Carrera feels, it's a miracle that it talks at all. And the weighting is genuinely natural when you turn into a corner. On this slick surface, we could almost criticize the steering for not communicating enough as the front tires lose adhesion. Except the rear tires let go at the same time. Understeer is nowhere to be found; at the limit, the car goes neutral. Stability control is very lenient, interfering only when the driver doesn't correct as quickly as the rear wheels come around. And when Preuninger, sitting in the passenger seat, switches off the system with a devilish laugh, the GT3 becomes as throttle-steerable as every GT3 before it.
Then there's the active rear steering. Frankly, Porsche's marketing department should have left that out of the press conference. You'll never know it's there. You'd hardly describe the previous GT3's reactions as ponderous, but the old car did take a moment to settle into a corner, especially at the rear. The new car turns in instantly and as a whole, with none of the artificial feeling imparted by the regular Carrera's optional active anti-roll system. Preuninger meant it when he told us to shut up and drive: Even the sharpest purist rhetoric falls apart when the GT3 feels exactly like a 911 from behind the wheel, only better.
And don't bother crying over the disappearance of the Mezger motor. This car uses effectively the same 3.8-liter block as the Carrera S, but that tremendously oversquare engine's bore and stroke dimensions are each within a millimeter of the last GT3's 3.8.
The new engine hits its power peak where the old one hit its rev limiter. It redlines at 9000 and makes 475 hp from just 3.8 liters. Shut up, indeed.
Along with additional oiling capability, the GT3 engine uses titanium connecting rods and forged aluminum pistons. Its cylinder heads have been substantially reworked for high-rpm duty, including nerd-**** finger followers that incorporate hydraulic valve-lash adjustment. Happily, this six isn't as soft in the low range as its 6250-rpm torque peak would suggest. It lives to rev, though we had to fight the instinct to shift shy of redline. That's probably because our ears have never before been treated to the sound of a nine-grand flat-six in a street car, but forward thrust eases noticeably in the 750 rpm between the horsepower peak and the redline. Noise does not. The GT3 emits a pained wail that, along with the high-pitched whine from the transmission's hydraulic pump, will have a Ferrari 458 looking around nervously for the nearest exit.
To grab the next gear, you can pull one of the steering-column paddles, which feel heftier than those of a regular 911. Or, if you're in the middle of a turn, sideways and arms crossed up, you'll want to use the console shifter, because the paddles aren't fixed to the steering column. And there's even more good news: By reversing the shift pattern, Porsche has finally admitted—without actually admitting anything—that its Tiptronic (torque-converter automatic) and PDK (dual-clutch) shift levers have been backward for years. The GT3's lever now operates like a sequential race 'box, with a push forward for a downshift and a pull for an upshift.
The seven-speed transmission contains revised gearing compared with the regular 911. Every single ratio is different, as is the final drive. A quick calculator workout, however, shows that while the ratios are much shorter overall, the GT3's additional 1200 rpm makes up for the gap—the car's maximum speeds in gears one through five are nearly identical to those of a Carrera S. The additional grunt and shorter gear ratios knock a staggering 0.7 second off the Carrera S's already blistering sprint to 60 mph. Fuel economy will likely suffer, but we don't care, and you shouldn't either.
More important, the GT3 hits its top speed in top gear (and at just over 8000 rpm), where other PDK-equipped Porsches do the deed in sixth. The GT3 also reacts more quickly to shift requests than does the regular 911, and Preuninger even installed a clutch-dump function—pull both paddles in any gear, and the engine will freewheel. Release them, and drive will gently reengage. If you're in Sport Plus mode, the gearbox will unceremoniously dump the clutch.
"I wanted to make sure I could still do a burnout when I pull up next to a Prius at a red light," Preuninger says. The man is quickly approaching sainthood.
Alas, the GT3 wouldn't need the Prius-paddle function if it had a real clutch pedal. Hearing this, Preuninger's chiseled face drops.
"The manual-versus-PDK argument was the most discussed point [during development], and we only made the decision to go with the PDK last August. This is genuinely the first time a paddle gearbox is satisfying to me. PDK takes away the clutch, which is the interface between man and machine. I admit that. But it gives back more. Every shift of the manual-transmission car loses almost a half car-length [on acceleration]. That means after three shifts, the [automatic] GT3 can pass a manual GT3 and pull safely in front of it."
To which we couldn't help but respond, "Yeah, a GT2 or an automatic Turbo could do that, too."
The crux of the issue is that there's a fundamental difference between speed-obsessed German engineers and good ol' silly Americans who just love to drive a manual. For the former, there's a point at which the automatic is faster and can be programmed to be more efficient. It then becomes "better." To the rest of us, it merely becomes a better automatic. And while the GT3's PDK is one of the better automatics, there is not, nor will there ever be, an automatic that is as involving as a manual. The 911, like so many other cars, has traded a degree of involvement for speed. We'd happily lose time on the sprint to 60 mph, or a few seconds per lap, if it meant more fun.
But rather than lay all the blame on Preuninger and Germans as a whole, we're partly at fault. There was a time when most enthusiasts seemed to view the dual-clutch automatic as the second coming. After living with those transmissions for a decade, they just feel like automatics.
On that note, allow us to apologize on behalf of an entire industry. We were wrong. We don't care about shaving tenths off acceleration runs. We want to work for our lap times. We're bored to death behind the wheel, and we want to get busy with a shift lever and a clutch pedal.
Perhaps those Germans also can admit they made a mistake. No need to apologize for the directional operation of the shifter or the regular 911's lack of steering feel; those are now fixed.
You have to hope that, at some point, Porsche will release a Mea Culpa Edition GT3 with a six- or seven-speed manual. In the meantime, we'll just enjoy the version we have. Which—if you'll please just shut up and drive it—is one hell of a consolation prize.
Exclusive First Drive: 2014 Porsche 911 GT3
Tradition and progress collide.
By Jason Cammisa April 29, 2013 / Photos by Tobias Hutzler
At this spring's Geneva motor show, there were crowds fighting to snap pictures of the newest fast cars from Lamborghini, Ferrari, and McLaren. Over at the Porsche stand, a drop-dead gorgeous 911 GT3 sat in relative solitude, receiving only passing, disapproving glances.
The proverbial pitchfork-wielding Porsche purists weren't pissed just because the new car no longer uses the Le Mans-winning Mezger engine of previous GT3s. No, the nail in the newest Porsche's coffin of public opinion is that it will be available only with an automatic transmission. Which is, by the way, no different from the crowd-pleasers over at Lamborghini, Ferrari, and McLaren.
"I don't get this Stone Age idea about what a 911 should be," says Andreas Preuninger, the man responsible for Porsche's GT cars, at Porsche's rain-dampened proving grounds the next day. "With the first GT3, they were practically throwing rocks at me because it didn't have an automated-manual transmission, which was where all the hype was at the time. But those transmissions weren't very good. Now, the GT3 gets a perfect [dual-clutch automatic], and everyone is screaming for the manual."
We admit that, this time, we were part of the screaming. The GT3 has always been the 911 that offered the least of what techno-crazed Germans would call "progress," but as a result, it led the sports-car world in terms of driving experience. It was the rawest, purest expression of everything that defines the 911—right down to its detuned race motor and wrist breaker of a manual shift lever.
"Ugh, God, you're one of them!" says Preuninger, rolling his eyes. "Just shut up and drive the thing."
The new GT3 starts up with a bark no less intense than that of the old car. The interior buzzes, both literally and figuratively, at idle. The variable-stiffness magnetorheological engine mounts are clearly not tuned for comfort. When you start out from a stop, there's an overabundance of revs, noise, and clutch slippage. Our test car is a preproduction prototype, but if Porsche has any sense, the transmission's programming will stay exactly like this.
Moving off, as you're focusing on the clutch engagement, something else grabs your attention: The steering snaps to life. This doesn't happen in a regular 911, with which the GT3 shares its steering hardware. It took Preuninger's team more than two years of programming work before he was happy with the electrically assisted steering; he wanted the driver to feel everything the car's tie rods experience. This is doubly good news, as it means the GT3 has steering reminiscent of older Porsches, but it's also an indication that there's hope for the regular, numb-helmed 911. And the Boxster/Cayman twins, which use similar equipment.
Cruising at U.S.-highway speeds on Porsche's track, the GT3's steering isn't quite as talkative as that of a 997. Still, given how distant the steering in the base Carrera feels, it's a miracle that it talks at all. And the weighting is genuinely natural when you turn into a corner. On this slick surface, we could almost criticize the steering for not communicating enough as the front tires lose adhesion. Except the rear tires let go at the same time. Understeer is nowhere to be found; at the limit, the car goes neutral. Stability control is very lenient, interfering only when the driver doesn't correct as quickly as the rear wheels come around. And when Preuninger, sitting in the passenger seat, switches off the system with a devilish laugh, the GT3 becomes as throttle-steerable as every GT3 before it.
Then there's the active rear steering. Frankly, Porsche's marketing department should have left that out of the press conference. You'll never know it's there. You'd hardly describe the previous GT3's reactions as ponderous, but the old car did take a moment to settle into a corner, especially at the rear. The new car turns in instantly and as a whole, with none of the artificial feeling imparted by the regular Carrera's optional active anti-roll system. Preuninger meant it when he told us to shut up and drive: Even the sharpest purist rhetoric falls apart when the GT3 feels exactly like a 911 from behind the wheel, only better.
And don't bother crying over the disappearance of the Mezger motor. This car uses effectively the same 3.8-liter block as the Carrera S, but that tremendously oversquare engine's bore and stroke dimensions are each within a millimeter of the last GT3's 3.8.
The new engine hits its power peak where the old one hit its rev limiter. It redlines at 9000 and makes 475 hp from just 3.8 liters. Shut up, indeed.
Along with additional oiling capability, the GT3 engine uses titanium connecting rods and forged aluminum pistons. Its cylinder heads have been substantially reworked for high-rpm duty, including nerd-**** finger followers that incorporate hydraulic valve-lash adjustment. Happily, this six isn't as soft in the low range as its 6250-rpm torque peak would suggest. It lives to rev, though we had to fight the instinct to shift shy of redline. That's probably because our ears have never before been treated to the sound of a nine-grand flat-six in a street car, but forward thrust eases noticeably in the 750 rpm between the horsepower peak and the redline. Noise does not. The GT3 emits a pained wail that, along with the high-pitched whine from the transmission's hydraulic pump, will have a Ferrari 458 looking around nervously for the nearest exit.
To grab the next gear, you can pull one of the steering-column paddles, which feel heftier than those of a regular 911. Or, if you're in the middle of a turn, sideways and arms crossed up, you'll want to use the console shifter, because the paddles aren't fixed to the steering column. And there's even more good news: By reversing the shift pattern, Porsche has finally admitted—without actually admitting anything—that its Tiptronic (torque-converter automatic) and PDK (dual-clutch) shift levers have been backward for years. The GT3's lever now operates like a sequential race 'box, with a push forward for a downshift and a pull for an upshift.
The seven-speed transmission contains revised gearing compared with the regular 911. Every single ratio is different, as is the final drive. A quick calculator workout, however, shows that while the ratios are much shorter overall, the GT3's additional 1200 rpm makes up for the gap—the car's maximum speeds in gears one through five are nearly identical to those of a Carrera S. The additional grunt and shorter gear ratios knock a staggering 0.7 second off the Carrera S's already blistering sprint to 60 mph. Fuel economy will likely suffer, but we don't care, and you shouldn't either.
More important, the GT3 hits its top speed in top gear (and at just over 8000 rpm), where other PDK-equipped Porsches do the deed in sixth. The GT3 also reacts more quickly to shift requests than does the regular 911, and Preuninger even installed a clutch-dump function—pull both paddles in any gear, and the engine will freewheel. Release them, and drive will gently reengage. If you're in Sport Plus mode, the gearbox will unceremoniously dump the clutch.
"I wanted to make sure I could still do a burnout when I pull up next to a Prius at a red light," Preuninger says. The man is quickly approaching sainthood.
Alas, the GT3 wouldn't need the Prius-paddle function if it had a real clutch pedal. Hearing this, Preuninger's chiseled face drops.
"The manual-versus-PDK argument was the most discussed point [during development], and we only made the decision to go with the PDK last August. This is genuinely the first time a paddle gearbox is satisfying to me. PDK takes away the clutch, which is the interface between man and machine. I admit that. But it gives back more. Every shift of the manual-transmission car loses almost a half car-length [on acceleration]. That means after three shifts, the [automatic] GT3 can pass a manual GT3 and pull safely in front of it."
To which we couldn't help but respond, "Yeah, a GT2 or an automatic Turbo could do that, too."
The crux of the issue is that there's a fundamental difference between speed-obsessed German engineers and good ol' silly Americans who just love to drive a manual. For the former, there's a point at which the automatic is faster and can be programmed to be more efficient. It then becomes "better." To the rest of us, it merely becomes a better automatic. And while the GT3's PDK is one of the better automatics, there is not, nor will there ever be, an automatic that is as involving as a manual. The 911, like so many other cars, has traded a degree of involvement for speed. We'd happily lose time on the sprint to 60 mph, or a few seconds per lap, if it meant more fun.
But rather than lay all the blame on Preuninger and Germans as a whole, we're partly at fault. There was a time when most enthusiasts seemed to view the dual-clutch automatic as the second coming. After living with those transmissions for a decade, they just feel like automatics.
On that note, allow us to apologize on behalf of an entire industry. We were wrong. We don't care about shaving tenths off acceleration runs. We want to work for our lap times. We're bored to death behind the wheel, and we want to get busy with a shift lever and a clutch pedal.
Perhaps those Germans also can admit they made a mistake. No need to apologize for the directional operation of the shifter or the regular 911's lack of steering feel; those are now fixed.
You have to hope that, at some point, Porsche will release a Mea Culpa Edition GT3 with a six- or seven-speed manual. In the meantime, we'll just enjoy the version we have. Which—if you'll please just shut up and drive it—is one hell of a consolation prize.
#23
04-30-2013, 11:26 PM
Couldn't agree more. Many people have driven both types of transmissions, and many have found the DCT boring - I know I have and apparently, so has a writer from Road and Track, and many, many posters on forums. Sometimes new is just new, not better.
#24
04-30-2013, 11:37 PM
Your statement only applies to people who like older technology that hinders progression for a subjective "feel". If people want a stick car then buy a 997.2 GT3RS. Leave the whining at the door and the new allocations for people like me who want the best performing machines available
#25
05-01-2013, 08:41 AM
When cars progress it's about making them faster, handle better, stop better and go quicker around the track. New IS better because this car does most everything better as with every new generation. Who would buy new cars if they didn't offer better performance?
Your statement only applies to people who like older technology that hinders progression for a subjective "feel". If people want a stick car then buy a 997.2 GT3RS. Leave the whining at the door and the new allocations for people like me who want the best performing machines available
Your statement only applies to people who like older technology that hinders progression for a subjective "feel". If people want a stick car then buy a 997.2 GT3RS. Leave the whining at the door and the new allocations for people like me who want the best performing machines available
Most of the improvement this new car offers, will only aid those that don't know how to drive a manual or aren't interested in the challenge and interest the manual provides at any speed. So go and buy one and the rest of us that actually do have some interest in driving will hope that Porsche becomes enlightened. For the rest, "Go 991 GT3 poseurs"!!
#26
05-01-2013, 12:22 PM
Perhaps it is time for you to leave your whining at the door. This thread was a discussion in reaction to an article written by a professional and people's agreeing or not agreeing with the comments about the loss of a manual transmission. There is enjoyment to be derived from a manual regardless of speed, something you seem unable to recognize, although again, the professional writer, certainly does.
Most of the improvement this new car offers, will only aid those that don't know how to drive a manual or aren't interested in the challenge and interest the manual provides at any speed. So go and buy one and the rest of us that actually do have some interest in driving will hope that Porsche becomes enlightened. For the rest, "Go 991 GT3 poseurs"!!
Most of the improvement this new car offers, will only aid those that don't know how to drive a manual or aren't interested in the challenge and interest the manual provides at any speed. So go and buy one and the rest of us that actually do have some interest in driving will hope that Porsche becomes enlightened. For the rest, "Go 991 GT3 poseurs"!!
#27
05-01-2013, 01:46 PM
Perhaps it is time for you to leave your whining at the door. This thread was a discussion in reaction to an article written by a professional and people's agreeing or not agreeing with the comments about the loss of a manual transmission. There is enjoyment to be derived from a manual regardless of speed, something you seem unable to recognize, although again, the professional writer, certainly does.
Most of the improvement this new car offers, will only aid those that don't know how to drive a manual or aren't interested in the challenge and interest the manual provides at any speed. So go and buy one and the rest of us that actually do have some interest in driving will hope that Porsche becomes enlightened. For the rest, "Go 991 GT3 poseurs"!!
Most of the improvement this new car offers, will only aid those that don't know how to drive a manual or aren't interested in the challenge and interest the manual provides at any speed. So go and buy one and the rest of us that actually do have some interest in driving will hope that Porsche becomes enlightened. For the rest, "Go 991 GT3 poseurs"!!
#28
05-01-2013, 02:22 PM
A bit afraid to stick my head in the lion's mouth with this debate but thought I'll share my thoughts... I owned 2 Ferrari F430s and a 458 with F1 trannies. Loved all 3 of them and specifically chose F1 trannies in the 2 F430's (the 458 was never offered with 3 pedals). All 3 are thoroughly engaging with their F1 trannies - the 458 is magnificent. My dd is a manual 996 which I track at least 4-5 times a year (in fact I will be at COTA next weekend with the Porsche Club). While I really like the 3 pedal manual even as a dd, I wish I had a 991 GT3 on track to improve my times. If Porsche is to compete with Ferrari and Lambo with track cars (like the 430 Scuderia or the upcoming 458 track equivalent), they have to go with the tranny option that makes the car faster. Quote: "Every shift of the manual-transmission car loses almost a half car-length [on acceleration]. That means after three shifts, the [automatic] GT3 can pass a manual GT3 and pull safely in front of it."
I don't think Porsche made a mistake with a PDK GT3. I just think they could have offered it with a 3 pedal manual ALSO since they have it already in other 991 models (therefore minimal incremental R&D).
Having said that, if both options were offered, I wonder what percentage of buyers would have actually bought the bolt-action manual. Ferrari and Lamborghini had less that 5% takers for their 3 pedal trannies and that is why they stopped offering them.
I don't think Porsche made a mistake with a PDK GT3. I just think they could have offered it with a 3 pedal manual ALSO since they have it already in other 991 models (therefore minimal incremental R&D).
Having said that, if both options were offered, I wonder what percentage of buyers would have actually bought the bolt-action manual. Ferrari and Lamborghini had less that 5% takers for their 3 pedal trannies and that is why they stopped offering them.
Last edited by SpeeddemonC2; 05-01-2013 at 08:47 PM.
#29
05-01-2013, 04:08 PM
A bit afraid to stick my head in the lion's mouth with this debate but thought I'll share my thoughts... I owned 2 Ferrari F430s and a 458 with F1 trannies. Loved all 3 of them and specifically chose F1 trannies in the 2 F430's (the 458 was never offered with 3 pedals). All 3 are thoroughly engaging with their F1 trannies - the 458 is magificent. My dd is a manual 996 which I track at least 4-5 times a year (in fact I will be at COTA next weekend with the Porsche Club). While I really like the 3 pedal manual even as a dd, I wish I had a 991 GT3 on track to improve my times. If Porsche is to compete with Ferrari and Lambo with track cars (like the 430 Scuderia or the upcoming 458 track equivalent), they have to go with the tranny option that makes the car faster. Quote: "Every shift of the manual-transmission car loses almost a half car-length [on acceleration]. That means after three shifts, the [automatic] GT3 can pass a manual GT3 and pull safely in front of it."
I don't think Porsche made a mistake with a PDK GT3. I just think they could have offered it with a 3 pedal manual ALSO since they have it already in other 991 models (therefore minimal incremental R&D).
Having said that, if both options were offered, I wonder what percentage of buyers would have actually bought the bolt-action manual. Ferrari and Lamborghini had less that 5% takers for their 3 pedal trannies and that is why they stopped offering them.
I don't think Porsche made a mistake with a PDK GT3. I just think they could have offered it with a 3 pedal manual ALSO since they have it already in other 991 models (therefore minimal incremental R&D).
Having said that, if both options were offered, I wonder what percentage of buyers would have actually bought the bolt-action manual. Ferrari and Lamborghini had less that 5% takers for their 3 pedal trannies and that is why they stopped offering them.
#30
05-01-2013, 06:00 PM
I'd estimate 25%-30% based on the experience of BMW M-series and the legacy-factor tied to the GT3 series.
Last edited by nizer; 05-01-2013 at 07:11 PM.