Really need advice about potential 05 gt3 purchase
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Really need advice about potential 05 gt3 purchase
Ok, guys, I don't spend much time on the gt3 section of the forum but I thought I'd solicit some advice from the 6gt3 gurus. I've come across a car that is tempting me to sell my beloved 996tt that I've owned for 7 years. Last year about this time I got the itch to jump to a 6gt3 but after driving what I now believe to be a bad example, I resovled to stick with my car which is really well sorted (custom umw 1-bar tune, FVD-valved pss9's, techart rear wing, gt2 ic's, replica gt2 front bumper, gt2 clutch slave conversion and evo stage 3 clutch, switzer exhaust, etc....).
So fast forward to a few days ago and I encounter a black 05 with pretty high miles for sale (73k). Asking price is 55k. First Porsche for the current owner and he is ready to sell after only about 10k miles over two years. Second owner put 30k miles on it in 11 months in 2007-2008, otherwise, the mileage per year has been pretty normal for a gt3. Car was purchased by current owner from a fellow in Arcadia Ca who put only 1,500 miles on it.
The bad: cosemtically a little rough around the edges. There are a few door dings, some small scratches, a few pretty good rock chips, and the headlights are yellow. The front bumper also has that "salted" look from the thousands of tiny little rock chips that are so apparent on black porsches that have a lot of highway miles. Sport seats are ok with some wear on bolsters, but rest of the interior looks a little tired, but nothing that a new silver center console and a little tlc couldn't fix. Clean Car Fax but by virtue of some overspray it looks like the front hood was painted at some point. No receipts or records before 11/2011. Silver accents on the techquipment shifter and "gt3" script handbrake are pretty beat up. The cosmetic stuff is a bit of a bummer since my current car is in such nice shape, but its not a deal breaker for me since I enjoy detailing and I'm pretty handy.
The Good: When the current owner purchased the car in 11/2011, RSS in Cal went through it and did a 60k mile major service that included changing out all fluids, plugs, belt, filters, lots of seals here and there, and basically every single clutch component were replaced (clutch disk, flywheel, pressure plate, bolts, seals, etc...). Receipt for this work shows $5,500 in parts and labor. About 1k in additional work about a year ago such as replacing some coolant lines and a new water pump. Rear michilen pilot sports are new. Car drives really well. Ride is good, and it seems to pull good (although the missing torque is really, really obvious). Steering was nimble and shifts felt swift and good. Other than the Lloyd's mat "gt3" script mats and the ipod compatible alpine head unit, the car appears to be bone stock.
The questions:
(1) The engine seems a little noisy when listening near the exhaust, but I know that is pretty normal for a gt1 metzger engine. The sound is a bit "klanky" (not the loud rythmic tick that can be indicative of ims shaft or valvetrain issues). Is this normal for the n/a gt1 engine?
(2) At anything above about 3k rpm, the oil pressure was reading pretty close to max (5 on the guague). Is it normal for these cars to read at the top of the guage during spirited driving?
(3) coming from the turbo platform, i've been spoiled by the availability of relatively cheap hp increases. I'm guessing theres not much to be done to increase performance of the gt3 without stroking the motor, but do exhaust/cat changes help performance at all? I'd like a bit more aggressive sound if I purchased this and a performance increase would be nice at the same time.
What do you guys think about a fair price for a car like this? Before I purchase I will do a ppi with an overrev check for type 1 and type 2's, so assume that the overrev count is acceptable. As you know, its hard to arrive at a true "market" price for these cars because they are so rare, and I've noticed values ranging all over the place. And, there are very few high mileage "comps" which makes it even harder for me to value this 70k mile plus car.
The car feels much slower (in a straight line at least!) than my current ride, but I can honestly say I thought this gt3 was more "fun" to drive, which is what is important to me (two of my favorite former vehicles were my boxster s and an e36 m3...not known for being blazing fast but really fun to drive)
Any thoughts, advice, or comments would be highly appreciated! Scott.
So fast forward to a few days ago and I encounter a black 05 with pretty high miles for sale (73k). Asking price is 55k. First Porsche for the current owner and he is ready to sell after only about 10k miles over two years. Second owner put 30k miles on it in 11 months in 2007-2008, otherwise, the mileage per year has been pretty normal for a gt3. Car was purchased by current owner from a fellow in Arcadia Ca who put only 1,500 miles on it.
The bad: cosemtically a little rough around the edges. There are a few door dings, some small scratches, a few pretty good rock chips, and the headlights are yellow. The front bumper also has that "salted" look from the thousands of tiny little rock chips that are so apparent on black porsches that have a lot of highway miles. Sport seats are ok with some wear on bolsters, but rest of the interior looks a little tired, but nothing that a new silver center console and a little tlc couldn't fix. Clean Car Fax but by virtue of some overspray it looks like the front hood was painted at some point. No receipts or records before 11/2011. Silver accents on the techquipment shifter and "gt3" script handbrake are pretty beat up. The cosmetic stuff is a bit of a bummer since my current car is in such nice shape, but its not a deal breaker for me since I enjoy detailing and I'm pretty handy.
The Good: When the current owner purchased the car in 11/2011, RSS in Cal went through it and did a 60k mile major service that included changing out all fluids, plugs, belt, filters, lots of seals here and there, and basically every single clutch component were replaced (clutch disk, flywheel, pressure plate, bolts, seals, etc...). Receipt for this work shows $5,500 in parts and labor. About 1k in additional work about a year ago such as replacing some coolant lines and a new water pump. Rear michilen pilot sports are new. Car drives really well. Ride is good, and it seems to pull good (although the missing torque is really, really obvious). Steering was nimble and shifts felt swift and good. Other than the Lloyd's mat "gt3" script mats and the ipod compatible alpine head unit, the car appears to be bone stock.
The questions:
(1) The engine seems a little noisy when listening near the exhaust, but I know that is pretty normal for a gt1 metzger engine. The sound is a bit "klanky" (not the loud rythmic tick that can be indicative of ims shaft or valvetrain issues). Is this normal for the n/a gt1 engine?
(2) At anything above about 3k rpm, the oil pressure was reading pretty close to max (5 on the guague). Is it normal for these cars to read at the top of the guage during spirited driving?
(3) coming from the turbo platform, i've been spoiled by the availability of relatively cheap hp increases. I'm guessing theres not much to be done to increase performance of the gt3 without stroking the motor, but do exhaust/cat changes help performance at all? I'd like a bit more aggressive sound if I purchased this and a performance increase would be nice at the same time.
What do you guys think about a fair price for a car like this? Before I purchase I will do a ppi with an overrev check for type 1 and type 2's, so assume that the overrev count is acceptable. As you know, its hard to arrive at a true "market" price for these cars because they are so rare, and I've noticed values ranging all over the place. And, there are very few high mileage "comps" which makes it even harder for me to value this 70k mile plus car.
The car feels much slower (in a straight line at least!) than my current ride, but I can honestly say I thought this gt3 was more "fun" to drive, which is what is important to me (two of my favorite former vehicles were my boxster s and an e36 m3...not known for being blazing fast but really fun to drive)
Any thoughts, advice, or comments would be highly appreciated! Scott.
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Car will not compare to your turbo in a straight line but there is a connection in the GT cars you won't get from the carrera/turbo models. It's night and day for feel, with GT cars winning by a mile.
Definitely get a good PPI from a local shop with a DME scan, given the miles you may want to consider a compression and leak down test, some may say not needed but will give you additional peace of mind. Personally I'd find a good race shop in the area that knows these cars for the PPI vs. the dealer. Dealers tend to use the CPO checklist and it's just not as thorough as what a good shop will do. Evolution motorsports knows porsche well, there are other shops that race and do race support in the phoenix area (the one my buddy uses for his cup car is slipping my mind).
The cosmetics can be fixed, I would just negotiate that into the pricing, plus any needed maintenance. Bumper respray is easy and not expensive. Headlights can be polished by any good detailer. Door dings can be pulled. But checkout if there is accident damage. A painted hood could just be from bad road rash. All are negotiation points.
My opinion is the price seems a little on the high side, but I haven't been following 996 gt3 prices that closely. But if it has minimal track history, 70k miles is not hard on these cars.
1. Metzger engine is clanky and loud. Just have a shop check it out for any non-normal engines. Its part of the charm.
2. Normal. At 3k it should peg the pressure.
3. Headers, 200 cell cats, and a tune will get you some power, but the only real way to make power is a very expensive engine job. Turbos have the advantage here.
Definitely get a good PPI from a local shop with a DME scan, given the miles you may want to consider a compression and leak down test, some may say not needed but will give you additional peace of mind. Personally I'd find a good race shop in the area that knows these cars for the PPI vs. the dealer. Dealers tend to use the CPO checklist and it's just not as thorough as what a good shop will do. Evolution motorsports knows porsche well, there are other shops that race and do race support in the phoenix area (the one my buddy uses for his cup car is slipping my mind).
The cosmetics can be fixed, I would just negotiate that into the pricing, plus any needed maintenance. Bumper respray is easy and not expensive. Headlights can be polished by any good detailer. Door dings can be pulled. But checkout if there is accident damage. A painted hood could just be from bad road rash. All are negotiation points.
My opinion is the price seems a little on the high side, but I haven't been following 996 gt3 prices that closely. But if it has minimal track history, 70k miles is not hard on these cars.
1. Metzger engine is clanky and loud. Just have a shop check it out for any non-normal engines. Its part of the charm.
2. Normal. At 3k it should peg the pressure.
3. Headers, 200 cell cats, and a tune will get you some power, but the only real way to make power is a very expensive engine job. Turbos have the advantage here.
The questions:
(1) The engine seems a little noisy when listening near the exhaust, but I know that is pretty normal for a gt1 metzger engine. The sound is a bit "klanky" (not the loud rythmic tick that can be indicative of ims shaft or valvetrain issues). Is this normal for the n/a gt1 engine?
(2) At anything above about 3k rpm, the oil pressure was reading pretty close to max (5 on the guague). Is it normal for these cars to read at the top of the guage during spirited driving?
(3) coming from the turbo platform, i've been spoiled by the availability of relatively cheap hp increases. I'm guessing theres not much to be done to increase performance of the gt3 without stroking the motor, but do exhaust/cat changes help performance at all? I'd like a bit more aggressive sound if I purchased this and a performance increase would be nice at the same time.
What do you guys think about a fair price for a car like this? Before I purchase I will do a ppi with an overrev check for type 1 and type 2's, so assume that the overrev count is acceptable. As you know, its hard to arrive at a true "market" price for these cars because they are so rare, and I've noticed values ranging all over the place. And, there are very few high mileage "comps" which makes it even harder for me to value this 70k mile plus car.
The car feels much slower (in a straight line at least!) than my current ride, but I can honestly say I thought this gt3 was more "fun" to drive, which is what is important to me (two of my favorite former vehicles were my boxster s and an e36 m3...not known for being blazing fast but really fun to drive)
Any thoughts, advice, or comments would be highly appreciated! Scott.
(1) The engine seems a little noisy when listening near the exhaust, but I know that is pretty normal for a gt1 metzger engine. The sound is a bit "klanky" (not the loud rythmic tick that can be indicative of ims shaft or valvetrain issues). Is this normal for the n/a gt1 engine?
(2) At anything above about 3k rpm, the oil pressure was reading pretty close to max (5 on the guague). Is it normal for these cars to read at the top of the guage during spirited driving?
(3) coming from the turbo platform, i've been spoiled by the availability of relatively cheap hp increases. I'm guessing theres not much to be done to increase performance of the gt3 without stroking the motor, but do exhaust/cat changes help performance at all? I'd like a bit more aggressive sound if I purchased this and a performance increase would be nice at the same time.
What do you guys think about a fair price for a car like this? Before I purchase I will do a ppi with an overrev check for type 1 and type 2's, so assume that the overrev count is acceptable. As you know, its hard to arrive at a true "market" price for these cars because they are so rare, and I've noticed values ranging all over the place. And, there are very few high mileage "comps" which makes it even harder for me to value this 70k mile plus car.
The car feels much slower (in a straight line at least!) than my current ride, but I can honestly say I thought this gt3 was more "fun" to drive, which is what is important to me (two of my favorite former vehicles were my boxster s and an e36 m3...not known for being blazing fast but really fun to drive)
Any thoughts, advice, or comments would be highly appreciated! Scott.
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Thanks all. I'm going to pass on this car but got my eye on another! I think I'm going to keep both cars (at least for a while). Once I started thinking about getting rid of the turbo, it became obvious that I should just keep both!
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Hi,
Just went through a 2004 GT3 purchase and made a number of mistakes along the way... PPI at a shop of your choice and a visual, and if possible a check of repair records.
My cost was initially $58K for a track car with some goodies - roll bar, shocks, and a bunch of other stuff. Turned out tranny was bad and we negotiated another $8K - which is going to fix the tranny...
I wrote up the story here: https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...ml#post3930569
HTH
Ray
Just went through a 2004 GT3 purchase and made a number of mistakes along the way... PPI at a shop of your choice and a visual, and if possible a check of repair records.
My cost was initially $58K for a track car with some goodies - roll bar, shocks, and a bunch of other stuff. Turned out tranny was bad and we negotiated another $8K - which is going to fix the tranny...
I wrote up the story here: https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...ml#post3930569
HTH
Ray
Last edited by rbahr; Sep 4, 2013 at 09:23 AM.
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yikes! I'll be sure to ppi. I'm not new to the 9x6 platform and I'll have an opportunity to look it over extensively, so I should be able to avoid buying something that will need 10k in work! Thanks for the input guys...I'll keep you posted (fingers crossed).
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Done deal! I'm the proud owner of a new to me gt3, black/natural brown interior, pccb's, etc... Diff is still intact, clutch may need replaced soon, but only 836 type 1 overrevs early in the life of the car, no type 2's. Tech said that this is low for a gt3. Car is in very nice shape. I'll post full details in an intro post. Its been raining constantly since I got her so I really have not had a chance to drive it much, but so far I'm in love. Think I may keep the turbo too though. GT3 is more fun to drive, but turbo push is great when you want it!
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