991 GT3 prices
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I have been watching both 997 and 991 GT3's for 60 days. Daily. It's a very difficult market to nail down. Some observations:
I have seen 997.2's from 103K to 147K and I have seen private sellers asking 125K for a '14 991 to new 14's up to 145K and have seen new 15's go from 145K to 159K in the last 10 days. Throw in mileage/options/part of the country etc. and you have two generations of cars 6 years apart but overlapping in price. It's very unique. They are all holding value in my opinion. No bubble. The only thing that is consistent is the rarer the color and lower the mileage along with good options the higher the car is.
The average '10/'11 997.2 seems to be about 127K
The average '14 991 is 144K
The average '15 991 is 155K
The average 997.2 RS is about 175K
With outliers mixed in there..
Mj
I have seen 997.2's from 103K to 147K and I have seen private sellers asking 125K for a '14 991 to new 14's up to 145K and have seen new 15's go from 145K to 159K in the last 10 days. Throw in mileage/options/part of the country etc. and you have two generations of cars 6 years apart but overlapping in price. It's very unique. They are all holding value in my opinion. No bubble. The only thing that is consistent is the rarer the color and lower the mileage along with good options the higher the car is.
The average '10/'11 997.2 seems to be about 127K
The average '14 991 is 144K
The average '15 991 is 155K
The average 997.2 RS is about 175K
With outliers mixed in there..
Mj
Last edited by Michael Adair; Mar 13, 2015 at 10:48 PM.
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REnnlist has a used 2015 10k over MSRP a used 2014 for 540$ LESS than MSRP. Must be nice to buy a car and sell it for more or what you paid for it. And no one thinks that is a bubble. Give it 18 months and they will be under 135.
Last edited by Squat; Mar 14, 2015 at 12:24 PM. Reason: price
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1.Actually no they arent, I have seen a number of turbos for sale that the owner bought a gt3 and was waiting. I know 2 guys in Las vegas that did the same thing. There are 2-3 cars on ebay right now that where owned by someone with a GT3 on order. And i believe one or two on rennlist So thats your opinion
2. So a guy paying MSRP then selling his car for MSRP isnt making a profit? Oh yes he is, the second he puts miles on the car its losing value yet he is selling for what he paid.
3. The MSRP cars you are seeing are allocated cars, call about these MSRP cars, they are all spoke for " if the buyer backs out I will call you"
4. Yes the new RS is a PDK that was the only thing I said wrong.
All the rest is your opinion. As to #2. you put 5k on your car and it shouldnt be selling for MSRP or what you paid for it. If you got a lightly optioned Base model and put miles on it you shouldn't be getting 140k for it, thats what guys are asking for a car they have owned for over a year and put 5k+ on it. There are a number of Gt3s listed over 175k. Maybe your local dealer isnt marking them up greatly but a lot of private and aftermarket dealers seem to think they are sitting on a gold mine.
Look around and 1. read the ads 2. listen to the "word on the forums" Just like the 997.1/2 we have the last mezger... same people are saying we have the LAST GT3 to be built for the foreseeable future so you are buying one of the last available.
Again go read what is being said. My original post is to ask why some people think they can make more because there is a lull in the stopping of the GT3 and starting of the RS. If you have the ability to drop 145k+ on a track car, more like 160 for one with some options, then the RS is not going to stretch the budget that much.
So because my opinion and what i have read doesnt line up with what you think doesnt make me spreading Misinformation. Yes I was wrong on the RS, I hadn't read the latest news because I am not in the market for one. Like I said in another thread do I keep my turbo and buy a gt4 or sell my turbo and get the Gt3. So I'm another one of those Turbo guys that isnt interested in a GT3. Funny think about the comment is most guys that take their turbo to the track end up lusting after a Gt3 shortly there after.
So we will have to agree to disagree here.
2. So a guy paying MSRP then selling his car for MSRP isnt making a profit? Oh yes he is, the second he puts miles on the car its losing value yet he is selling for what he paid.
3. The MSRP cars you are seeing are allocated cars, call about these MSRP cars, they are all spoke for " if the buyer backs out I will call you"
4. Yes the new RS is a PDK that was the only thing I said wrong.
All the rest is your opinion. As to #2. you put 5k on your car and it shouldnt be selling for MSRP or what you paid for it. If you got a lightly optioned Base model and put miles on it you shouldn't be getting 140k for it, thats what guys are asking for a car they have owned for over a year and put 5k+ on it. There are a number of Gt3s listed over 175k. Maybe your local dealer isnt marking them up greatly but a lot of private and aftermarket dealers seem to think they are sitting on a gold mine.
Look around and 1. read the ads 2. listen to the "word on the forums" Just like the 997.1/2 we have the last mezger... same people are saying we have the LAST GT3 to be built for the foreseeable future so you are buying one of the last available.
Again go read what is being said. My original post is to ask why some people think they can make more because there is a lull in the stopping of the GT3 and starting of the RS. If you have the ability to drop 145k+ on a track car, more like 160 for one with some options, then the RS is not going to stretch the budget that much.
So because my opinion and what i have read doesnt line up with what you think doesnt make me spreading Misinformation. Yes I was wrong on the RS, I hadn't read the latest news because I am not in the market for one. Like I said in another thread do I keep my turbo and buy a gt4 or sell my turbo and get the Gt3. So I'm another one of those Turbo guys that isnt interested in a GT3. Funny think about the comment is most guys that take their turbo to the track end up lusting after a Gt3 shortly there after.
So we will have to agree to disagree here.
Originally Posted by google
Economic bubble
Definition:
A market phenomenon characterized by surges in asset prices to levels significantly above the fundamental value of that asset. Bubbles are often hard to detect in real time because there is disagreement over the fundamental value of the asset.
http://www.nasdaq.com/investing/glos...conomic-bubble
Definition:
A market phenomenon characterized by surges in asset prices to levels significantly above the fundamental value of that asset. Bubbles are often hard to detect in real time because there is disagreement over the fundamental value of the asset.
http://www.nasdaq.com/investing/glos...conomic-bubble
To your point about the RS and Turbo. Thank you for adding yourself as another data point showing my point of 2 different crowds as valid. I highly question your knowing Turbo owners selling their cars for the RS because there are 0 allocations out yet in the USA (unless you own a 918) and you won't see the car till July at the absolutely earliest. Why would they sell now with no allocation and needing till mid to late summer to get it? It makes no sense.
To the rest of your statements, read what Michael Adair is writing. He is posting facts and data that he's seeing and seems pretty up to date.
If you want to discuss further, pm me
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Bapesta - apologies for the delay - here is the link to the one at 139k
http://rennlist.com/forums/vehicle-m...gt3-white.html
Also on Rennlist there is one for 132k with 2k miles on it
cheers
http://rennlist.com/forums/vehicle-m...gt3-white.html
Also on Rennlist there is one for 132k with 2k miles on it
cheers
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Your definition of bubble market and mine (as well as the rest of the world) are very different. Here's the definition per google so there is no confusion:
So, how is buying a car that traditionally has held its value very well and selling for MSRP a bubble? I'm making no profit because I am still losing money on taxes, gas guzzler, maintenance, and anything else I did to the car. A bubble assumes a profit and I'm making no profit in the example.
To your point about the RS and Turbo. Thank you for adding yourself as another data point showing my point of 2 different crowds as valid. I highly question your knowing Turbo owners selling their cars for the RS because there are 0 allocations out yet in the USA (unless you own a 918) and you won't see the car till July at the absolutely earliest. Why would they sell now with no allocation and needing till mid to late summer to get it? It makes no sense.
To the rest of your statements, read what Michael Adair is writing. He is posting facts and data that he's seeing and seems pretty up to date.
If you want to discuss further, pm me
So, how is buying a car that traditionally has held its value very well and selling for MSRP a bubble? I'm making no profit because I am still losing money on taxes, gas guzzler, maintenance, and anything else I did to the car. A bubble assumes a profit and I'm making no profit in the example.
To your point about the RS and Turbo. Thank you for adding yourself as another data point showing my point of 2 different crowds as valid. I highly question your knowing Turbo owners selling their cars for the RS because there are 0 allocations out yet in the USA (unless you own a 918) and you won't see the car till July at the absolutely earliest. Why would they sell now with no allocation and needing till mid to late summer to get it? It makes no sense.
To the rest of your statements, read what Michael Adair is writing. He is posting facts and data that he's seeing and seems pretty up to date.
If you want to discuss further, pm me
On that white one, is there is story behind it?
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try reading, i said GT3 not RS. Oh ok so a dealer offering 15k below msrp on a trade in and someone asking MSRP or more would be a bubble an artificially high price. Just because you own one doesnt change that fact. If they were worth MSRP the dealers would be taking MSRP on a trade in. You are making a profit because you are not factoring in depreciation.... everything used has instant depreciation, except I guess the car you bought. They are not selling like someone just posted there is one guy dropping the price on his 14 7k and well well under MSRP.
On that white one, is there is story behind it?
On that white one, is there is story behind it?
You own a Turbo? Yes.
You aren't interested in buying an RS? Yes
Since both answers are yes my statement holds true as you are another example.
I am a bit surprised I need to tell you this but dealers are in the business of making money. They never offer fair value for a car, otherwise they will make no money. If they are selling cars for MSRP, they will offer a certain % under in order to make a profit.
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More GT3s should become available as allocations for GT3RS's start coming available. Deciding between the GT3 and GT4 is an interesting one. The 2 cars are totally different. If both cars were available when I bought my GT3, I would have still picked the GT3. I wanted a rear engine high revving car and this fits the bill. I also like the PDK-S a lot. It's completely different than the standard PDK.
The GT4 will also be in very high demand and I'm guessing they will sell it in higher volumes since Porsche is in the business to make money
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agreed. The Gen 1 rs cars and the gt3 cars will hold due to the manual the mezger the rawness, the higher MSRP of new ones and imo for the Rs cars long term collectibility and decreasing numbers due to track use. A 1973 rs went for 11k. Today 450k is a bargain. It's always about production numbers and long term value. They can bury me in mine Won't be selling. The gen 2 rs cars also appreciated substantially and imo will hold even if a manual 991 hits the dealership but i doubt porsche makes an entirely new transmission for the RS given the GT4 is out there. Not simple a part bin thing. They could but but when and why?
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1.Actually no they arent, I have seen a number of turbos for sale that the owner bought a gt3 and was waiting. I know 2 guys in Las vegas that did the same thing. There are 2-3 cars on ebay right now that where owned by someone with a GT3 on order. And i believe one or two on rennlist So thats your opinion 2. So a guy paying MSRP then selling his car for MSRP isnt making a profit? Oh yes he is, the second he puts miles on the car its losing value yet he is selling for what he paid. 3. The MSRP cars you are seeing are allocated cars, call about these MSRP cars, they are all spoke for " if the buyer backs out I will call you" 4. Yes the new RS is a PDK that was the only thing I said wrong. All the rest is your opinion. As to #2. you put 5k on your car and it shouldnt be selling for MSRP or what you paid for it. If you got a lightly optioned Base model and put miles on it you shouldn't be getting 140k for it, thats what guys are asking for a car they have owned for over a year and put 5k+ on it. There are a number of Gt3s listed over 175k. Maybe your local dealer isnt marking them up greatly but a lot of private and aftermarket dealers seem to think they are sitting on a gold mine. Look around and 1. read the ads 2. listen to the "word on the forums" Just like the 997.1/2 we have the last mezger... same people are saying we have the LAST GT3 to be built for the foreseeable future so you are buying one of the last available. Again go read what is being said. My original post is to ask why some people think they can make more because there is a lull in the stopping of the GT3 and starting of the RS. If you have the ability to drop 145k+ on a track car, more like 160 for one with some options, then the RS is not going to stretch the budget that much. So because my opinion and what i have read doesnt line up with what you think doesnt make me spreading Misinformation. Yes I was wrong on the RS, I hadn't read the latest news because I am not in the market for one. Like I said in another thread do I keep my turbo and buy a gt4 or sell my turbo and get the Gt3. So I'm another one of those Turbo guys that isnt interested in a GT3. Funny think about the comment is most guys that take their turbo to the track end up lusting after a Gt3 shortly there after. So we will have to agree to disagree here.
Posts.
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Nice problem to have
More GT3s should become available as allocations for GT3RS's start coming available. Deciding between the GT3 and GT4 is an interesting one. The 2 cars are totally different. If both cars were available when I bought my GT3, I would have still picked the GT3. I wanted a rear engine high revving car and this fits the bill. I also like the PDK-S a lot. It's completely different than the standard PDK.
The GT4 will also be in very high demand and I'm guessing they will sell it in higher volumes since Porsche is in the business to make money
More GT3s should become available as allocations for GT3RS's start coming available. Deciding between the GT3 and GT4 is an interesting one. The 2 cars are totally different. If both cars were available when I bought my GT3, I would have still picked the GT3. I wanted a rear engine high revving car and this fits the bill. I also like the PDK-S a lot. It's completely different than the standard PDK.
The GT4 will also be in very high demand and I'm guessing they will sell it in higher volumes since Porsche is in the business to make money
Yes, I'd rather have a GT3 as well. However, If I'm not able to find the right one, I may decide to give the GT4 a try to see how I like it. If it doesn't suit me, I can always go back and try to find a nice 991 GT3 as there should be more available on the market down the road as you've said. Or, perhaps get in line for a .2 991 GT3 as AP said that there will be another couple years for N/A GT cars. All good
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Yes, I'd rather have a GT3 as well. However, If I'm not able to find the right one, I may decide to give the GT4 a try to see how I like it. If it doesn't suit me, I can always go back and try to find a nice 991 GT3 as there should be more available on the market down the road as you've said. Or, perhaps get in line for a .2 991 GT3 as AP said that there will be another couple years for N/A GT cars. All good