Do you think that those early buyers of the Zonda (which had an unmodified Mercedes engine and was no faster than a Ferrari 550) were not car dudes? There are car dudes who will reserve judgement on what a car is worth until they drive it. Or they'll look at other aspects besides the numbers. If all they wanted was numbers, then an ACR makes just about everything else look overpriced. Yet, I don't see a huge rush of performance car buyers rushing to Dodge dealerships. "Most" car dudes aren't in any position to buy this car anyway so what's the relevance of saying it's overpriced? It's like a group of high school nerds saying they wouldn't bang a Victoria's Secret model because her **** aren't big enough.

 

I can see you just like to argue

I stand by what I said about "most" car guys not seeing the "value" of the LF-A. Let that word sink into your cranium before you type another post Dont even know why you are trying to fight that fact. Look at the majority of car forums and you will find the vast majority of car guys dont share your viewpoint. The majority of car guys are price consious as most of us cant afford to play in that rarified price range.

Even on highend Forums like Lambopower etc they find the LF-A not a good value and some of them can afford many LF-A. So yes the majority will look at the price/performance of the LF-A and find it wanting even the affluent. I never said that there wont be any car guys that find it appealing for reasons of rarity, technowizzardry, collectors etc so dont know why you felt the need to give me a talking on that lol.

I still cant believe you used a small specialty mfg like Pagani to make your point against a mega bucks MFG like Toyota Think about that for a minute. Comparitively infinite R&D vs a small mfg. Ill take a Zonda over and LF-A everytime. The Zonda was as fast as other highend cars of its time and deffinately faster than most of the entry level supercars when it first came out. Cant say the same for the LF-A. It can barely beat a GTR. What do you think a Viper/ZR1 will do to it? Bottomline its barely competative with entry level supercars like the GTR/Z06 and it cant compete with highend cars of its class or slightly lower. Not a good choice to make your point. I do understand where you are coming from however and I see merits of you opinion but I just lean toward the "not a good value" opinion.

BTW if those nerds had access to other models with big **** they wouldnt chose the small ****. Similarly the LF-A has small **** and its surrounded by models with big **** like the 560-4, 599, 670 SV, Porsche GT2/RS/reg turbo, F430, Merc Black series, Zonda etc

 

WTF does "most car guys on forums" have to do with anything? To most car guys on forums, they can't even afford a Ferrari/Lambo. Hell, I'd wager "most car guys" can't even afford a Z06. Do you honestly think most car guys make a purchasing decision solely on performance specifications? Is a person who buys a Bentley definitely not a "car guy?"
Lexus don't have to win over "most car guys." All they wanted was 500.

And who said anything about comparing Zonda to Toyota? I was comparing Zonda to Ferrari. I think your mind slipped over that one for good reason: You can be a car guy and choose a Zonda over a Ferrari which was cheaper.
Yes, Toyota is huge, but that doesn't mean they spend a huge portion of their budget on superexotics like Pagani do. The fact that a giant car mfr known for making generic econocars is offering a car with the driving excitement of a Ferrari Scuderia is good for car enthusiasts, no? Or would you rather they not offer it all?

"BTW if those nerds had access to other models with big **** they wouldnt chose the small ****."
That's a huge "if." And if your aunt had a *****...

How is the Black Series worth it, but not the LFA? Doesn't that also qualify as a car offering Z06 performance at 599 GTB prices? The Black Series sounds like the girl with the big **** who isn't better in the sack.

 

Why do these threads always turn into drag strip style pissing matches?

The LFA is a SICK machine and a display of technology - priced high to keep it special. Do guys that love ***** out speed buy this? no. Do guys that like to track their cars buy this? no. It fits a special niche and it does it well.

It bothers me when people always compare performance numbers in cars. Who cares!!! If all people were that way, would anyone ever buy a Jag or Aston?

If i had the cash and already had like 10 of my fav cars in the garage id get an LFA for sure. Looks amazing in white!!!

 

Much like how Lexus came out of nowhere in 1989, they have done the same in 2010. We should applaud the first true exotic from Japan, a different beast to the usual Euro supercars.

No its not perfect, which supercar is?

 

No one on any of the Lexus forums that I am on has stepped forward and said they are buying one. So until then I guess we can only speculate why someone would participate in helping Lexus with their rotary loom budget!

Do we forget that people buy things because they like the best of the best? Would people buy Patek Phillipes if they did not tell time as good as a Seiko and it looked worse on the outside but had onobtanium inside its case. Especially if Patek Phillipe was an offshoot of Tag Huer and used Tag Huer components?

I own a Lexus, and let me tell you at no point in any sports car or exotic car conversation would I proudly bring up that point! If your whole goal was to have people stare at you , are you telling me that a 458 Italia would be invisible next to an LFA? Should anyone who put a deposit or bought an LP-670 SV be slapped for accepting such inferior technology and reliability compared to a Lexus LFA?

 

Wow, neg repped in my own thread because I chose not to be a blind fan boy of a car with an entirely too long development period. WOW!

 

Well, i see your points...and dont disagree....but to be honest, i have already seen a 458 Italia and a LP670SV in person....and suspect ill see a few more in the comings summer months. Will i see a Lexus LFA? Highly doubt it. Take that for whats its worth.....

 

I can understand why people would buy it, I really don't need to because most of them are already spoken for. My point is what does it do for true enthusiasts and what does it do to move the supercar game forward? The next generation Murci replacement promises to not cost much more and to truly perform on another level from the car it replaces a car that already outperforms the LFA in every way.

 

It doesn't have to do anything to move the supercar game forward to justify its price. A true enthusiast can still appreciate that it is a unique car and does just about everything expected of a supercar (I already listed many of those reasons). A true enthusiast doesn't have to look only at the objective numbers to determine its worth.
You are trying to tell us that "true enthusiasts" must look at the objective performance numbers of Car A against Car B and then decide unequivocally relative worth only on the basis of which is faster for the money? I'm sorry, I don't subscribe to that. That sounds like another form of elitism, and may be the basis for you getting negative reps on your own thread.
True supercars are rarely defined by the objective numbers they generate anyway; it's how they generate those numbers, how they make the owners/drivers feel. If it makes them feel good enough, if it's fast enough (and I notice you didn't acknowledge the acceleration figures against the GT3), then whether it's marginally slower against a Ferrari or Murcielago is inconsequential. Honestly, how many Enzo owners have traded in their cars simply because an ACR has posted a faster 'Ring time, or because they can buy a ZR1 that's near as fast in a straight line for 1//10th the price (going by current market values)? Is a Zonda buyer not a "true car enthusiast?"

Which Lexus forums are you on? Link(s)?

 

i happen to love the lfa and i think it has the most thrilling exhaust note i have ever heard!! I have also defended the lfa against those who say its not worth, they say "i wouldn't pay 350k for a lexus" but based on nothing, just like some ignorant people say the gtr isn't worth 85k even though the engineering,parts, and performance say different. If the car is made of the same exotic components, and required the same r&d and engineering as other cars of this price then why shouldn't it cost this much?? Thats how i felt until it came out and now im trying to figure out why it weighs more than a z06 and why its slower to 60 and a 1/4 than the 997.2!! The fact that lexus chose to make 500 doesn't make it worth more money,its the heritage, its the metals from other planets and the time in the wind tunnel and performance that seems to defy phyisics, kind of like a 3900lb car with 480hp doing 0-60 in 3.5 sec, 1/4 in 11.6, and 7:27 around the ring. you look at a veyron that is very very expensive but no one questions why that car is something special or if its worth it. the lfa as far as looks its not the most exotic car in the world, as far as performance its not the fastest car in the world, racing heritage not the most of that either, but where it is elite/hyper/exotic is PRICE!!!! in closing though if i had the money and a stable of cars i would buy it, but if i had 1 or even 2 exotics i wouldn't....

 

LOL....I gotta hand it to you Guibo you do really like to create arguments out of thin air. How about not assuming things that dont appear in someones post eh?

Again with implying that I said those that can afford the LF-A are not car guys. Where are you getting this from? Certainly not from reading my posts. All are car guys but the majority will not see the value in the LF-A based on its performance since its trying to be a hyper exotic sportscar not a GT like a Bentley. This is why I said what I said about car forums. Is performance the end all be all of a car NO. But if you are attempting to position yourself at a certain level where performance is a hugely important factor then yes it should be looked at.

Also the Zonda example you used intially to show it was just like the LF-A because it was only as fast as a 550 a la the LF-A barely faster than an entry level car like the GTR. I merely pointed out that the 550m in your example was at least a highend car vs the entry level GTR. This doesnt make the LF-A look good as it can only barely beat an entry level supercar for a hell of a price. At least the Zonda was as fast or faster then fellow highend exotics.

You were also drawing the conclusion that the LF-A is no different than the Zonda hence you were indirectly comparing Pagani to Lexus. Cant believe you couldnt see that is what you were doing hence my incredulous feeling at you trying to compare what Toyota is capable of vs Pagani.

Again you have a singular mind on this subject so you cant see others opinions. Sad really. I see your point as it isnt something mystical that others havent considered. You continue assuming that I said "they shouldnt have built it", "anyone that buys or likes an LF-A isnt a car guy" and whatever else goes on in your brain when you get into debate mode.

I saw what the LF-A is capable of on the Top Gear track so it has very good handling etc. Handling is its strong point moreso than straighline acceleration kinda like the GTR. All I and others have ever said is that the total performance/looks is a bit lacking for the price. Toyota can easily fix that with a bit more power and a nicer front end. How do you possibly object to that opinion?

 

I found this online. Now in this color it really pops. I can even live with the front a bit but still wish it was better. I know they redid the original prototype front end, which I liked better, for top speed/aerodynamic purposes. Really wish they bumped it up by 100hp instead of just 10 horses. In colors like this the car almost look different from the white car. So much better looking to me in orange. Similar to the GTR lol. The GTR pops in orange.

http://www.egmcartech.com/2010/05/10...tart-at-70000/

 

Guibo you should have worked for Mccain's debate team, maybe we would not have elected BHO!

Again most if not all of the LFA are already spoken for, so its not a discussion of its worth real or perceived. It's worth $375k simply because that price has been agreed to on a number of them already pre-sold. But were not talking about a car that is a few tenths slower here and there. We are talking about a sports exotic car, not a GT car with a rear seat mind you that is made out of unobtanium that performs worse than cars two car classes down!

What I don't get is the mythical engineered by press release cars that have hoards of fanboys and say things like OMG the GTR has repealed the laws of physics! I own a Corvette you don't see me going to everyone that ever said they don't like them and internet sword fighting with them do you? I didn't buy my car so I could bench race it on the internet...LOL.

 

Audi's approach is one that I liked very well, pricing an exotic without an exotic car badge withing arms reach of other more conventional sports cars. Once they established the R8 then they move the pricing with the V10 close to what the other entry level super cars are priced at. Where does Lexus go from here?