Hunt Valley Horsepower - 2nd Anniversary Special Gathering - 3/29/14
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 395
From: Maryland, U.S.
Rep Power: 34
I hear you, but what are you going to do? When I got there at 6:45, they said "Lotus? Euro. Go there." So I initially parked my fully restored 1974 Lotus Europa Special between a second gen Toyota MR2 and a Scion FRS. And next to them were lines of current/recent mostly Japanese tuner cars. Ok, nice cars for what they are, but my Lotus looked more than a little out of place. Not that it's any better, but a 70's era British car looks, well, not like current cars.
I eventually wound up parking next to a bunch of cars from Treasured Motorcars, who does the wrenching on my car that I can't...or really shouldn't do.
It's all a matter of perspective. Probably 30 or more current edition Camaros came in and parked together. Ok, seen one, seen 'em all. Nissan GTR's? Have to respect Godzilla, but when 20 pull in together, well they all look the same. And while I was amused by seeing a dozen more or less V6 Fiero GT's in a prime parking area, even having owned one years ago I was mystified by their place of honor.
And this will rankle on this forum, but while I respect Porsche for the cars they make from an engineering and performance perspective...to simply LOOK at them, which is what a car show is all about...as an uninitiated most of the 911 variants look pretty much the same to me. The Carrera GT and the older Beck (I think) 356 rally car stood out among the P cars.
And frankly, these days, one current Ferrari looks pretty much like the next, ditto the Lambos. Yawn. And BMW coupes. Great cars, really...but they all look alike except for color. Don't get me started on Cobra replicas or Corvettes. When I first when to HV last November, there were two new C7 Vettes there, the first I'd seen on the road. Saturday? I think I counted 7 or more. They are not a novelty anymore.
The Jag XK150, the McClaren, the Carrera GT, the little British tank looking thing, the new Alfa 8C coupe, two genuine Shelby Mustangs, the Volvo P1800, and some others really caught my eye. All the rest of it was, to me, enjoying a festival auto atmosphere.
I have to admit I don't understand Will's business model. I guess somehow he's making money, but I'm not sure how. There was what, one vendor there? If he were to charge registration fees for his anniversary events (as opposed to the week to week cars and coffee) he might thin the herd a bit of the more pedestrian cars. And make a few nickels too.
Directly facing my car were two reverse image Ford GT's, Lambos, the McClaren, the Alfa 8C's, etc.... THEY probably thought my car belonged next to TR6's or MGB's somewhere else (perhaps rightfully). I was at a car show in Annapolis a few years ago with a Lotus Exige I owned. A woman there with a Ferrari said that she used to own an Elise, it was just her daily beater. She said it was only a Lotus, so she didn't care if it got beat up day to day. Ok.
I looked at the cars that caught my eye, the others were invisible. But I respect their owners and fans, and if they are proud of their cars, why not?
BUT...no matter what cars were there, it was too damn many. Getting OUT of there was a PITA, and I waited a bit to leave. That place, and the entry/exit intersections and lights, are not meant to handle that many cars coming/going at the same time.
I may head up there a few times this season on a Saturday morning, but on 3 out of the 4 times I've been there, I've had an unpleasant experience on the Beltway, so maybe not so often. But that has more to do with owning a vintage Lotus, which stands for Lots of Trouble, Usually Serious.
I eventually wound up parking next to a bunch of cars from Treasured Motorcars, who does the wrenching on my car that I can't...or really shouldn't do.
It's all a matter of perspective. Probably 30 or more current edition Camaros came in and parked together. Ok, seen one, seen 'em all. Nissan GTR's? Have to respect Godzilla, but when 20 pull in together, well they all look the same. And while I was amused by seeing a dozen more or less V6 Fiero GT's in a prime parking area, even having owned one years ago I was mystified by their place of honor.
And this will rankle on this forum, but while I respect Porsche for the cars they make from an engineering and performance perspective...to simply LOOK at them, which is what a car show is all about...as an uninitiated most of the 911 variants look pretty much the same to me. The Carrera GT and the older Beck (I think) 356 rally car stood out among the P cars.
And frankly, these days, one current Ferrari looks pretty much like the next, ditto the Lambos. Yawn. And BMW coupes. Great cars, really...but they all look alike except for color. Don't get me started on Cobra replicas or Corvettes. When I first when to HV last November, there were two new C7 Vettes there, the first I'd seen on the road. Saturday? I think I counted 7 or more. They are not a novelty anymore.
The Jag XK150, the McClaren, the Carrera GT, the little British tank looking thing, the new Alfa 8C coupe, two genuine Shelby Mustangs, the Volvo P1800, and some others really caught my eye. All the rest of it was, to me, enjoying a festival auto atmosphere.
I have to admit I don't understand Will's business model. I guess somehow he's making money, but I'm not sure how. There was what, one vendor there? If he were to charge registration fees for his anniversary events (as opposed to the week to week cars and coffee) he might thin the herd a bit of the more pedestrian cars. And make a few nickels too.
Directly facing my car were two reverse image Ford GT's, Lambos, the McClaren, the Alfa 8C's, etc.... THEY probably thought my car belonged next to TR6's or MGB's somewhere else (perhaps rightfully). I was at a car show in Annapolis a few years ago with a Lotus Exige I owned. A woman there with a Ferrari said that she used to own an Elise, it was just her daily beater. She said it was only a Lotus, so she didn't care if it got beat up day to day. Ok.
I looked at the cars that caught my eye, the others were invisible. But I respect their owners and fans, and if they are proud of their cars, why not?
BUT...no matter what cars were there, it was too damn many. Getting OUT of there was a PITA, and I waited a bit to leave. That place, and the entry/exit intersections and lights, are not meant to handle that many cars coming/going at the same time.
I may head up there a few times this season on a Saturday morning, but on 3 out of the 4 times I've been there, I've had an unpleasant experience on the Beltway, so maybe not so often. But that has more to do with owning a vintage Lotus, which stands for Lots of Trouble, Usually Serious.
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,366
From: NoVa
Rep Power: 295
Come on guys, I think we're all missing the point of this meet. Its a 'car' show, for ALL cars. Sure I tune out cars that aren't interesting to me, but obviously the owner is proud of what they drove there (except for me, I know my car sucks). The quality vs quantity argument is moot IMO as this wasn't targeted to any single type of car. All car enthusiasts were invited and they all came out.
Rich does a great job with his events and I'm sure he's his own worst critic. Some things didn't go well, and some things went as planned. At the end of the day, I had a good time.
Takes a lot of *****, time, and effort to do what he does; I congratulate him on a succesful event.
Rich does a great job with his events and I'm sure he's his own worst critic. Some things didn't go well, and some things went as planned. At the end of the day, I had a good time.
Takes a lot of *****, time, and effort to do what he does; I congratulate him on a succesful event.
My understanding was that the 650S was a customer's car, and they had already sold it. Maybe they even delivered it to the customer at Hunt Valley Horsepower?
And could you imagine trying to selectively choose which cars would be allowed in or not? They just don't have the capacity for that. Not only are there just too many cars, but the "judging" is subjective, not objective.
LS1 RX7, you're allowed in. Civic with $25,000 in motor work but has a dented fender, you're not allowed in. Regular C6 Corvette that costs $23,000 used, you're allowed in. Brand new Civic SI that costs $27,000 you're not allowed in.
See what I mean? Sure, Rich could have blocked off a section for all the exotics, but then he's showing bias towards certain cars/people, and that is not what cars & coffee is all about. It's not an official car show. Don't blame someone else for the exotic car owners not showing up early enough.
And could you imagine trying to selectively choose which cars would be allowed in or not? They just don't have the capacity for that. Not only are there just too many cars, but the "judging" is subjective, not objective.
LS1 RX7, you're allowed in. Civic with $25,000 in motor work but has a dented fender, you're not allowed in. Regular C6 Corvette that costs $23,000 used, you're allowed in. Brand new Civic SI that costs $27,000 you're not allowed in.
See what I mean? Sure, Rich could have blocked off a section for all the exotics, but then he's showing bias towards certain cars/people, and that is not what cars & coffee is all about. It's not an official car show. Don't blame someone else for the exotic car owners not showing up early enough.
It seems to me that Rich is wanting to make it a more professionally-styled enthusiast meet (thus the work he did above and beyond just saying "let's get together" - he even got insurance for the event). To make it actually work as intended, he might want to go one step further. Charge the $5 entry (everyone can easily pony up five bucks) and have a proper registration. It's a once-a-year event, so make it special. Have awards for best cars in various categories, crowd favorites, etc. Sponsors can donate for the cost of awards (and I guarantee a sponsor can be found to make custom trophies). Make it open to all cars, but use the registration process to designate parking - the registration list gives a definite number of vehicles and vehicle types, which can then be used to organize parking.
Would that be worthwhile? I don't know, I'm just throwing an idea out there. But an enthusiast event would be a lot of fun - not an over-the-top show car event like Hot Import Nights (if that's still a thing). Surely it's easier said than done. Regardless, there's got to be a better way to keep the event going without people losing interest due to overcrowding.
A simple registration process, even if there's no registration fee, would help with enforced parking. Want to park in the show car lot? Register beforehand. Done.
And of course "judging" is subjective. But that's the car enthusiast world. People love a DeLorean, but it's one of the crappiest cars ever made - its appreciation is purely subjective.
I don't know if the 650S was already sold, but it did get delivered to the site in an enclosed trailer, and re-loaded into the trailer afterwards.
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 166
From: Baltimore,MD/Park City,UT
Rep Power: 22
i've been a regular at HV since it started. rich does a great job in promoting and organizing. what i feel is being forgotten here is that it is a car's n coffee. it's not a show, it's not a meet…etc etc. it's a CnC. does the "special occasion" anniversary's draw a huge crowd….yes. forget the registering, forget the "reserved parking", forget the cones,signs and police tape. show up, park (wherever), grab your coffee, look at cars, shoot the s#@t with some friends and leave. if you want to park with your car club then show up at 0'dark thirty. if the crowds are too intimidating or the entrance/exits are too confusing for you stay in bed.
what remains is that there is an amazing amount of unbelievable cars in this area and i am thankful to rich for giving us a venue to spend a few hours at on a nice saturday morning.
what remains is that there is an amazing amount of unbelievable cars in this area and i am thankful to rich for giving us a venue to spend a few hours at on a nice saturday morning.
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 197
From: MD
Rep Power: 26
Same here, left around 9:45. To avoid the long lines to get out.
83 south bound was blocked down to one lane, I was sure somebody already crashed but they were just filling pot holes.
The only outcome I can see is that people will start showing up ealier and earlier.
I have about an hour to hour and half drive and got there at about 7:15 and was redirected to go behind Joe's, long line in the front and them trying to decide where to send people. The guy behind Joe's said no we are full here, told him the guys upfornt said if I do not belong to a group to go back here. He then said just drive through here and find a place back upfront. Made my way around and parked in a then still empty row and was later the only non Corvette there.
All in all plenty to see. Loved the Posie Roadster on E type basis, the GT2RS, glad to see the 8C in coupe and vert next to each other. Certainly the crowd has gotten too big for the lot, the coffe shop, the rest room situation but hey where else do you get see three orange Gallardos next to each other ....
I have to agree that the clubs should not be in the show room area, it is just too many of the same. Try to get a good mix of everything. It is hard for a great Corvette or GTR or Camarro or P car to stand out of a whole row of the same. How about a female driver section. Loved seeing the lady coming in in a 911 vert and another in the pink Miata .... 0-60 eventually.
83 south bound was blocked down to one lane, I was sure somebody already crashed but they were just filling pot holes.
The only outcome I can see is that people will start showing up ealier and earlier.
I have about an hour to hour and half drive and got there at about 7:15 and was redirected to go behind Joe's, long line in the front and them trying to decide where to send people. The guy behind Joe's said no we are full here, told him the guys upfornt said if I do not belong to a group to go back here. He then said just drive through here and find a place back upfront. Made my way around and parked in a then still empty row and was later the only non Corvette there.
All in all plenty to see. Loved the Posie Roadster on E type basis, the GT2RS, glad to see the 8C in coupe and vert next to each other. Certainly the crowd has gotten too big for the lot, the coffe shop, the rest room situation but hey where else do you get see three orange Gallardos next to each other ....
I have to agree that the clubs should not be in the show room area, it is just too many of the same. Try to get a good mix of everything. It is hard for a great Corvette or GTR or Camarro or P car to stand out of a whole row of the same. How about a female driver section. Loved seeing the lady coming in in a 911 vert and another in the pink Miata .... 0-60 eventually.
Last edited by Schwabe; Apr 7, 2014 at 09:59 AM.
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,366
From: NoVa
Rep Power: 295
i've been a regular at HV since it started. rich does a great job in promoting and organizing. what i feel is being forgotten here is that it is a car's n coffee. it's not a show, it's not a meet…etc etc. it's a CnC. does the "special occasion" anniversary's draw a huge crowd….yes. forget the registering, forget the "reserved parking", forget the cones,signs and police tape. show up, park (wherever), grab your coffee, look at cars, shoot the s#@t with some friends and leave. if you want to park with your car club then show up at 0'dark thirty. if the crowds are too intimidating or the entrance/exits are too confusing for you stay in bed.
what remains is that there is an amazing amount of unbelievable cars in this area and i am thankful to rich for giving us a venue to spend a few hours at on a nice saturday morning.
what remains is that there is an amazing amount of unbelievable cars in this area and i am thankful to rich for giving us a venue to spend a few hours at on a nice saturday morning.
But to keep it as a normal Cars n' Coffee, it shouldn't be promoted as more than that. That's what is leading to the dissatisfaction a lot of us had.
Registered User
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 328
From: Maryland
Rep Power: 35
I had stuff to do in morning so I didn't there until about 10:40 which was obviously way late and could tell just from cars I passed on 83 that most had left.... and I still saw a lot of cool cars and talked to some interesting people.
When my uber-not-easily-flustered friend BobP told me he was there on time and it was complete chaos and mayhem I really wished I had been there earlier even more! lol That's my kind of car show.
What I find ironic and actually quite humorous about this "who should be allowed in debate" is that I guarantee you (actually I know firsthand factually) there is a total flip side of that coin for a lot of those owners with 400hp Civics, FRS & BRZ turbos, mod.ed "normal pos cars" (things maybe a little more discrete than a LS7 swap as someone suggested was "show worthy") .... cars belonging to people who actually know about them and know about mechanics and designing something a system or whatever and following it thru to completion and they go to these shows and they see each other and they talk about them and share information and ideas etc...... MOST OF THEM DON'T GIVE A SH-T ABOUT SOME "SHOW WORTHY" CAR BC IT COST X $s... be it a run of the mill Aston piece of junk crap company struggling to not go under about to cease making their own motors and using AMGs bc they are so sorry (truth = I like Astons but just saying co. is a bit of a flop business proposition wise at this point, a big $ loser for some UAE sovereign wealth fund owner, someone could arguably say that is grounds to be deemed "not worthy")...or dealer owned $300k McLaren or whatever you could go see at anytime (or if not this wk bc its new new wait a month the lot will be full of them)... nor do they find their probable desk jockey mechanically dimwit owners / dealer-employee-keepers who don't know sh-t about cars or mechanicals, prob. couldn't change their own oil or maintain proper tire pressures if they had to and would be of no value or usefulness to them as far as show participants.
The fact that some people are so myopic and self absorbed and clueless to that whole idea really cracks me up. For that crowd the joke is on you.... "get your over-priced piece of plain jane dealer-serviced crap off the lot so people who actually do something and know what they're talking about can congregate and hold court".
And obviously I'm not saying that's true for all owners of $ quarter million + cars or what have you, I know its not, and likewise some of those “normal car” owners are just taking up space for no good reason. I myself, I like seeing all the cars even the newer fancy ones I see all day at dealers etc. bc they're out on the road with people driving them its just a little different, but I really like seeing the cars that are different and moded and their owners who might actually know something / have stories and experiences that are worthwhile. And yeah there are some plain plain cars with really nothing interesting about them whatsoever but like some people have said here, its a car show - not a museum display - what r you gonna do?? Maybe next time around that plain plain car will be something cool bc of ideas the person got coming to that show in the first place.
I had never been to HV not even for one of their normal days, but even coming way late to this one, I thought it was pretty damn cool and something welcomingly different than Katies. Now what those resident businesses thought of it may be a different story idk.
As for McLaren dealer bringing cars.... trust me they will do whatever it takes to try and sell a car.... those cars are total dogs from a bus. and depreciation perspective. If they thought it might sell a car they'd drive it through a corn field. I went with friend to trade his MP4-12C (? I think is the stupid "hey isn't this a techy catchy" name) and order a 458 Spider cpl weeks ago (and he did his homework knew the trade / resale value), the car was loaded $293 sticker 1 yr. old mint mint 1500 miles the trade was $170K, $120k deprec. = > %40 in one year.... $80 per mi. (friend didn't like me pointing out that math to him LOL which of course made me do it more). I'm not surprised at all when those dealers drive all over kingdom come showing their inventory to people plus that HV location draws people / dealers from PA/Philly area b/c that really is their market area as much as it is for the No.VA base dealers.
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,366
From: NoVa
Rep Power: 295
I never said "normal cars" are "normal pos cars" nor did I imply it. Nothing said by anyone in this thread was meant to be offensive or hostile. So far everyone has been discussing what many thought to be a very over-crowded and disorganized event. Unless I missed something, everything posted thus far has been offered as constructive criticism. And we have all thanked Rich for the effort he put into it, despite the way some of us feel it turned out. But that doesn't mean everyone felt that way. We are each providing our own feedback.
If any of it upsets you, please take a moment to reflect before posting something so hostile.
If any of it upsets you, please take a moment to reflect before posting something so hostile.
Thread Starter
|
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,970
From: Baltimore, MD
Rep Power: 151
Rich - I do like the idea of breaking it up somewhat...maybe by country/region. So you have American, Japanese, German, Italian, and then you have your car club parking, vendors, etc.
They have meets in Phoenix, AZ called "The Pavilions" I believe (I lived out there 9 years ago so I might be wrong about the name) but anyway...it was a big meet at a shopping center parking lot, but it started in the evening. It was basically a cruise-in night. They had a DJ playing music, mostly from the 50's and 60's, but it attracted all types of cars, and they actually have it broken down like how I listed above.
The registration idea is a good idea in theory, but to actually put it into execution I feel would be totally impossible.
Another option would be to possibly move the location for the special anniversary events across the street to the business park where Bank of America is. I'm sure they could fit the number of cars. Plus the event wouldn't interfere with retail businesses on a Saturday.
I'm sure Will can shed some light on his thoughts when he eventually makes his way back to this thread...he is probably working on a million things (like keeping the peace with the management of the shopping center regarding the idiot wannabe drifters out on Shawan Rd).
They have meets in Phoenix, AZ called "The Pavilions" I believe (I lived out there 9 years ago so I might be wrong about the name) but anyway...it was a big meet at a shopping center parking lot, but it started in the evening. It was basically a cruise-in night. They had a DJ playing music, mostly from the 50's and 60's, but it attracted all types of cars, and they actually have it broken down like how I listed above.
The registration idea is a good idea in theory, but to actually put it into execution I feel would be totally impossible.
Another option would be to possibly move the location for the special anniversary events across the street to the business park where Bank of America is. I'm sure they could fit the number of cars. Plus the event wouldn't interfere with retail businesses on a Saturday.
I'm sure Will can shed some light on his thoughts when he eventually makes his way back to this thread...he is probably working on a million things (like keeping the peace with the management of the shopping center regarding the idiot wannabe drifters out on Shawan Rd).
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,366
From: NoVa
Rep Power: 295
For those confused: My name is Rich, and the guy that organized HVHP is also Rich (but also goes by Will). Sorry if that messed anyone up haha 
Categorized parking was the original intent, according to the map posted on the FB page. I'd guess the lot got too full too fast so the sections quickly disappeared as people just parked wherever they could find a spot.
I don't know the area at all - I've only been there twice (the two anniversary gatherings), so I'm not familiar with other lots or better spaces. Definitely something to look into if that'd help give more space!
As cool as it would be to have a DJ and whatnot, could you imagine adding that to the crowd we had Saturday? It'd be insane! Definitely cool, but I doubt it could be done without a much, much larger dedicated space.
Rich - I do like the idea of breaking it up somewhat...maybe by country/region. So you have American, Japanese, German, Italian, and then you have your car club parking, vendors, etc.
They have meets in Phoenix, AZ called "The Pavilions" I believe (I lived out there 9 years ago so I might be wrong about the name) but anyway...it was a big meet at a shopping center parking lot, but it started in the evening. It was basically a cruise-in night. They had a DJ playing music, mostly from the 50's and 60's, but it attracted all types of cars, and they actually have it broken down like how I listed above.
The registration idea is a good idea in theory, but to actually put it into execution I feel would be totally impossible.
Another option would be to possibly move the location for the special anniversary events across the street to the business park where Bank of America is. I'm sure they could fit the number of cars. Plus the event wouldn't interfere with retail businesses on a Saturday.
I'm sure Will can shed some light on his thoughts when he eventually makes his way back to this thread...he is probably working on a million things (like keeping the peace with the management of the shopping center regarding the idiot wannabe drifters out on Shawan Rd).
They have meets in Phoenix, AZ called "The Pavilions" I believe (I lived out there 9 years ago so I might be wrong about the name) but anyway...it was a big meet at a shopping center parking lot, but it started in the evening. It was basically a cruise-in night. They had a DJ playing music, mostly from the 50's and 60's, but it attracted all types of cars, and they actually have it broken down like how I listed above.
The registration idea is a good idea in theory, but to actually put it into execution I feel would be totally impossible.
Another option would be to possibly move the location for the special anniversary events across the street to the business park where Bank of America is. I'm sure they could fit the number of cars. Plus the event wouldn't interfere with retail businesses on a Saturday.
I'm sure Will can shed some light on his thoughts when he eventually makes his way back to this thread...he is probably working on a million things (like keeping the peace with the management of the shopping center regarding the idiot wannabe drifters out on Shawan Rd).
I don't know the area at all - I've only been there twice (the two anniversary gatherings), so I'm not familiar with other lots or better spaces. Definitely something to look into if that'd help give more space!
As cool as it would be to have a DJ and whatnot, could you imagine adding that to the crowd we had Saturday? It'd be insane! Definitely cool, but I doubt it could be done without a much, much larger dedicated space.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 338
From: Columbia, MD
Rep Power: 31
I never said "normal cars" are "normal pos cars" nor did I imply it. Nothing said by anyone in this thread was meant to be offensive or hostile. So far everyone has been discussing what many thought to be a very over-crowded and disorganized event. Unless I missed something, everything posted thus far has been offered as constructive criticism. And we have all thanked Rich for the effort he put into it, despite the way some of us feel it turned out. But that doesn't mean everyone felt that way. We are each providing our own feedback.
If any of it upsets you, please take a moment to reflect before posting something so hostile.
If any of it upsets you, please take a moment to reflect before posting something so hostile.
j/k). HVHP just came out with a statement that their professional valet team were a no-show, which led to assembling a last-minute crew of volunteers to handle the parking situation. They did the best they could even if Scott and BobP had to park by the avalance of blacktop snow
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,366
From: NoVa
Rep Power: 295
No offense taken Rich (except that you drive an Aston j/k).
HVHP just came out with a statement that their professional valet team were a no-show, which led to assembling a last-minute crew of volunteers to handle the parking situation. They did the best they could even if Scott and BobP had to park by the avalance of blacktop snow
j/k). HVHP just came out with a statement that their professional valet team were a no-show, which led to assembling a last-minute crew of volunteers to handle the parking situation. They did the best they could even if Scott and BobP had to park by the avalance of blacktop snow
I think I only saw one person working the parking, and they just sorta stood there and didn't say anything to anyone. If people got rounded up and had no idea what was going on, that would explain it! I don't envy them at all... "Sure I'll help" and then here's a thousand cars in your lap haha
I'm sure Scott and Bob got their angst relieved after we left. Our little excursion to Baltimore was quite the kick in the pants!
Last edited by telum01; Apr 7, 2014 at 03:25 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 803
From: Maryland
Rep Power: 56
Castaway Critters is coming up, Gina and I will be there as well as our kids. This is an extremely worthwhile cause... I will not be showing my car but my son will since he's driving the RS to the show... Hope to see a GREAT showing from this area at the show...
