Another one post fan who again happens to stumble into this forum, your opinions doesnt bother me at all.

Ive shown that both the Driver Republic and Sport Auto cars achieved a similar top speed, track conditions didnt play a major role in this, as did handling (7:38 v 7:5x). This section of the track seems to be all about power, the GT2 had lots, the STOCK GTR's didnt (Sport Auto and Driver Republic), while the Nissan ringer had Enzo like top speed properties.

 

Monaro, respectfully i have to disagree with your point here, absolutely no comparison with the GTR and an athlete using performance enhancing drugs can be made.

Unless proven otherwise we cannot call the Supertest time of 7:38(or mid 30's if you believe hvs) cheating. We cannot claim the test where a GTR that beat a ZR1 and GT3 was cheating.

You and i may not like the results of these comparisons since they don't favor the respective brands that we admire, but blatently calling them cheating is completely disrespectful.

The folks who conducted these tests are pretty well respected and calling their ethics into question without solid evidence is just wrong.

Just because my team did not win the NBA championsip i'm not going to discount the other team's victory by making accusations of cheating and steroid use.

Do you have any "Real" evidence that nissan cheated in the supertest or where it beat a Zr1 and gt3 there was cheating involved?

 

Lets look at this from a power to weight ratio.......................I can definately believe this.

The GTR on the other hand I simply cant.

 

Ferrari is "optimistic" while Nissan lies. Gotcha.

Are you being serious? Using your method:

DR top speed for the GT2: 292 km/h
Sport Auto top speed for the GT2: 293 km/h
Porsche top speed for the GT2: 310 km/h [+17]

Sport Auto top speed for the Z06: 270 km/h
GM top speed for the Z06: 295 [+25]

 

As I (and others here) have shown you time and time again, the Nurburgring is full of power/weight anamolies. You seriously think a ZR1 should outrun a 900-hp CCX, based on power/wt? If a Ford Mustang on stock suspension (complete with live axle) had a hp/wt ratio as good as the ZR1's, do you think it would set the same lap time, or anywhere near it?

 

One example is the top speed, another example is the time achieved by other testers.

If a swimmer was one of the slowest in the country happened to suddenly and unexpectedly get a world record swim during the olympics then again revert back to being one of the slowest this would definately throw up the cheater flag.

Unlike swimming however with its performance enhancing tests, no one scruitinised the Nissan GTR run. No one can 100% prove that Nissan cheated because no one had access to the car and no one could test the car. Does this mean that Nissan isnt a cheat by default?

 

Some cars are simply too much, some drivers just doesnt have the familiarity with the car. This is especially true for high powered 2WD cars. A top driver would get a great time.

HvS however has said that he found the GTR easy to handle (because of its 4WD). In my opinion the GTR simply doesnt have the power to do the time. Afterall its not reaching 3g's around corners while others can only do 1.5g's (where else can it make up the time)?

 

Your top speed example is atrocious. You really do still believe that Nissan's GT-R hit its peak speed before the kink at Antoniusbuche, don't you? At least heavychevy seems to have enough sense to realize that is not the case.

Let's all pretend now that the GT-R is one of the slowest cars in the world, and that 7:38 is somehow not close to a 7:33 (GT2) or is some glacially slow time compared to 7:29. The Olympics don't just think someone is a cheater and call them that. There are procedures to follow. And they apply them to everyone. In which case, the 295 km/h of the Z06 looks like it should be called in for scrutiny. That's 2 km/h faster than Sport Auto's GT2, and now you're probably going to tell me that a Z06 really does out-accelerate a GT2 at high speed.

 

Wow!!!! your logic is so flawed that that i had to go wash my face with cold water to make sure i was reading what you wrote correctly.

So i should not believe the 7:38 (or mid 30's per hvs) and the fact that the GTR beat a ZR1/GT3 because it should not have been able to based on "top speed" and "others not being able to achieve the same time"

Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

if you can't see how wrong and utterly flawed the statement you made is, please don't reply and accept my apologies for even engaging you in a conversation

 

In the hands of HvS, it's already 5 mph faster than the GT2 at Angstkurve. 1.2 mph faster than the GT2 at Flugplatz. Hits an identical top speed at the fast Fuchsrohre. 1.2 mph at the final Galgenkopf apex.

Maybe HvS said the GT-R is easy to handle because he drove it like anyone esle who hasn't tried it at it's true limit (where it's not so easy to drive). It doesn't snap into oversteer, and it's likely far more predictable and confidence-inspiring than some other cars. He drove with VDC on too. We should await the video to compare his driving style with Suzuki's. If he is nowhere near as aggressive, then we'll know why. He also laps at less than 100%

I'm pretty sure you also believed before that the GT-R "doesn't have the power" to do a 7:38. How the hell does 7:38 make sense, yet 7:29 in extremely different testing conditions doesn't?

 

I counted about 37-38 for the ZR1. A car with a more peaky engine like the GT3 might need many more shifts than that. Speaking of which, here's how the two compared on the Bedford Autodrome. One can clearly see the advantage offered by the DCT. The GT3 has better power/wt than the GT-R, BTW.


The GT-R is stealing back valuable tenths on each upshift. Downshifts are also executed quicker flawlessly, no risk of over-revving and surging the car in the braking zones. You'll see GM engineer Jim Mero throw up his hand after flubbing a line right after downshifting into a corner in the ZR1. Because the GT-R's torque delivery is uninterrupted, you can shift mid-corner with less worry about the car being disrupted. Having both hands on the car also helps to aid confidence; you can concentrate on the ideal line and braking points. Didier Theys, driving the ZR1 in Motor Trend, said he could cut his times by 2 seconds easy with just the addition of paddleshifters; that was a 60-second track.

"...every time you make a critical correction in the Porsche [GT3] the Nissan coolly steals a few more tenths of a second. The balance is neutral to nose-led, which sounds boring but isn’t, if only because you soon become addicted to the Nissan’s miraculous control and blinding pace. To drive it flat-out on a circuit – even one as wide and safe as Bedford – is to understand precisely how it can be so fast around the Nordschleife."
--Evo

 

Is this a test what we "doubter" asked for? 9sec is reasonable, if HvS got more seat time, "unlimited" tires and "unlimited" cars.

 

Maserati's press release, after the shootout with the CCX/CGT/Enzo/ZondaF on the Nurburgring:
"The MC12 posted an incredible 7:24.29, not only fastest of the group but also setting a new production car lap record in the process. The MC12 was the heaviest car of the group, with ‘old fashioned’ steel brakes and conventional dampers, yet took them all on, and triumphed convincingly. It wasn’t the fastest in the straights, but the car’s race-bred aerodynamics and Maserati engineering focused on making all the performance accessible meant it was consistently at or near the top of the cornering g-forces, allowing Basseng to get on the power harder and earlier than in its rivals, and its sure-footed handling meant that he had the confidence and ability to maintain consistent and smooth speed. Horsepower is not the sole factor in accessible performance; great balance is needed to make that power genuinely usable and not merely an academic ‘headline’ figure."

So now Maserati are lying/cheating, LOL.

Hp/wt says nothing about balance, and the accessibility of power. Many cars with extremely high hp/wt can (and do) lose out to cars that have better balance and more accessible power. Coming out of a turn, you can bet a GT-R is more able access a greater % of its peak hp/wt than a Z06 trying to put that all down on two tires.

 

^^^

I agree, even Heavychevy (Monaro's Mentor) has backed off a bit. After reading the SA supertest, it is blatantlly obvious that the GTR is a peer to the ZR1/GT2. I think Heavychevy realized this and just said to himself "You know, Its a supercar, why try to slander it?" Monaro cannot do the same because it would mean admiting total failure in all of his efforts up to this point.

 

This is a very very VERY good analogy.