even ferrari are working on V6 models and hybrid sports cars.
times change and u should better should accept the fact that the good old times of gas-guzzlers are counted.
AND the Cayenne as a SUV is much more non-Porsche than the Panamera imho.

 

Call VW if you don't like the change. Mr. Peich should take your call. I would suggest not jumping up and down complaining about Porsche because they don't own the place anymore. Might as well get used to it.

 

WOW allot of opinions...

I did not know the price point I was thinking more V6 Cayenne which can be had new for 58k, if that is the case and the S is 95k this would for sure hurt the S and 4S panamera resale.. Like stated above 74k for the V6 will not hurt the 90k S as bad... lets hope they stick to a base MSRP of 74k

 

Fiat has been in charge of Ferrari for over 25 years now. No 4 door hatch from them. Don't seem to be suffering either. They've managed to stay true to who they are. I'm really sick of hearing that "they need this to stay in business". They don't. The biggest issue is this thing is going to be slower. That means well have more time to see this wale drive by. Now its not only ugly, but as fast as a buick. Thats what I expect from Porsche.

 

The auto market was different 25 years ago, and you can't compare to today. FIAT bought Alfa/Ferrari as the high volume producer of the day in Europe. They knew the models these companies made, and had that in their plan. They could spread costs across the entire line of cars. Politically, it was important for FIAT to buy Alfa at the time.

Porsche has had this in the works for years. 3-5 years at least from design to production, and Porsche was independent when they made these decisions. Basic economics of the auto business forced them to sell more products. They made the right decision economically to build a SUV and they made the right decision to build a sedan, and you are comparing apples and oranges.

Now that VW owns them and can spread costs across the entire volume, maybe Porsche can focus on sports cars alone which seems to be what you want them to do. I, for one, do not. I like the fact that they are making a sedan. Like you, I wish it looked better, but I understand the desire to make their cars look similar. Branding is important, and this is how they choose to enforce there brand. Again, we can disagree, but this has been their branding direction for decades. For decades, all cars have a 911 look to them, just as all Aston's look similar, as do Audi's, etc.

I own a lowly C4, but it doesn't diminish GT3's and Turbos in my mind. I still want those cars. If I had the financial wherewithal, I would own them.

One day, I hope to own a Pan 4S, or maybe version 2 of a Pan.

I like Porsche in all the variants. I see your point in wanting a focused car company, and take no issue with it. I just prefer to have a few cars, suiting my different needs all from one brand I enjoy. If I don't like Porsche's sedan, I will find something else, but for me, I look to Porsche first, and then to other brands second for all my automotive needs. 2 or 4 doors don't make it a Porsche to me, other attributes make it Porsche to me, and when they stop being what I want, like you, I will look elsewhere. For now, there still is not substitute for me, be it 2 or 4 doors.

 

Well taken. My point is. They've never given in. They have never offered anything but a GT/Sports car. [But I do know people that won't accept a Ferrari without a 12cyl.] Porsche builds an increadible sports car. I feel the best in the world. No other company would build this car or cares to with its rear engine. We really have had no other choice for such a layout and is the reason I buy porsche. I am unsure if Porsche would be in existence today if they had dropped the 911 layout and replaced it with the 928 in the seventies. I also feel Porsche knows this. Its the only reason I see them so intent on retaining this one product. When it comes to everything else theyre offering.....there are so many other better looking choices from other companys that already build such a car. And many look much better. [I.E. any Audi sedan] Yesterday I was crusing alongside a Panam on the 101. A passenger in my car asked if it was rear engined. I said no and they asked why did Porsche make it look like its rear engined. I looked over at it and said, "I don't know why. But it does."

 

Agreed, they did give in, but economically, they were forced to do it if they wanted to continue in business as an independent producer. They tried to buy VW, and would have pulled it off had not the world economy crashed.

They could have found a partner on their own, and continued as Ferrari did, but ego's wouldn't allow it. In their place, I wouldn't have either.

Once the SUV decision was made, the rest is somewhat inevitable.

I agree that there are better looking choices out there, but better... I think Porsche's SUV is great at what it portends to be. Others are nice, and I think the RR Sport is better looking, but they wanted the SUV to look like the brand, hence the style.

Personally, I think your AM is the best looking brand today. The Riptide is much better looking than the Pan, but would I take the Riptide over the Pan?Depends... depends on finances, depends on needs, etc. But the Pan fits a need. I like hatchbacks, and I like that this one drives well.

Would you feel the same way if Porsche had built the Pan and it looked like the Riptide? Probably not, as that car is so good looking. It is just that Porsche made less than optimal styling choices? By any driving measure, they seem to have built a winner. It just isn't the prettiest girl at the dance, and as much as I wish it were, I can deal with the trade-offs.

Long term, I agree with others have said, and that is Porsche will be more GT oriented in the next 911, as that is what sells the most cars.

As things change, we may see another company come in to fill the need of a rear engine, sports car market niche if Porsche strays too far.

 

Must be missing something, but it seems that there is a rule that there "must" be a rear engined sports car, and Porsche should be focused only on that particular "must". Plenty have argued that it is not the "best" platform, and marvel at the ability to produce a great car despite its "compromised" starting point. Would the world end if the next 911 put the engine in front of the rear axle? Would people not buy it (as long as worked)?

Never thought there was a segment of buyers that only purchased a 911 simply because it was rear engined; actually thought is was because it was one of (if not the) best driver's cars for the money available. Forgive me for not caring where the engine is in a car (as long as the car works).

Why can't we (as fans of the brand) just be happy that the company is trying to build the best cars they can in each segment? Like it or not, the Boxster/Cayman, Cayenne and now the Panamera are great cars; some like them, some don't. As for looks, come on, no Porsche is ever going to win a beauty contest; they are all "ugly" in there own special way. Until you get behind the wheel anyway, where most (if not all) are beautiful in more ways than they ever could be considered ugly. Be happy they are still in business.

If you want to build "sports cars for purists", you still have to sell "cars" to the other 99% of the population (who could give a damn about purity and just want a great car) to pay for it. You really think there would be a GT3RS if there weren't a few v6 Cayennes (switch that to Panameras in a couple years) parked at the soccer field or the mall?

 

I simply think the only reason the company exists is because people had no other choice. I never really liked the layout but it was so funky and unique to drive. I've owned vintage and new product from Ferrari, Aston, Lamborghini, Porsche, etc. They all felt similar with the exception of the Porsche. I bought a 928 when it first came out. Great car but just didn't know why I chose it. Within a year it was gone. Nothing memorable about it. I've driven the Panam. It feels like an Aston. No difference really. And thats OK. I just look better in the Aston.

 

Fact is Im a car guy. Drawn to a mark because it provides to my taste. Take off the emblems. I don't care who makes it. If someone else builds a car that is as good or better than the 911. I'm there. Im very loyal to product that is right for me. Not the manufacturer. When they stray...I will. Very simple. No guilt. [And its all about me]

 

Last time I checked Porsche was a public company and any management team for a public company is charged with maximizing shareholder value. Porsche is in this business to make money pure and simple. Each company does it in their own way and Porsche has done a better job than others at creating a sizzle that sells cars. Define the sizzle any way you want to, racing pedigree, purist rear engined sport cars, racing results, design strategy, exclusivity, function over form; it is all to sell cars.

I agree with easy_button, all Porsches are less than beautiful, but I bet most people who buy them are focused on the brand, functionality, and the performance, not the ultimate looks. I think the Aston is stunningly beautiful on the outside, but they dont offer a package that beats the Panamera in my book and the Rapide does not appear that is will be contender in the performance category either. You know the main reason the Panamera has a disproportionate shape is that Porsche demanded rear space in the back seats for real people. I had 4 guys all over 6 foot in my car and no one had to move their seats to make room and the fellas in back were extremely comfortable, at least until the convinced me to show them launch mode...then they felt a little queasy

Here is some third party commentary on the Rapide vs. Panamera.

Update 4/12/2009: Aston Martin has now confirmed that the Rapide will start at £139,950

The glorious Aston Martin Rapide is now finally heading towards the showroom and the road – about time too. Aston Martin has finally got round to producing a proper specification list for the Rapide, but as of this date they still haven’t confirmed prices. We expect the Rapide to come in around £150,000 OTR in the UK, but as soon as we get a confirmation from Aston Martin we’ll update the information here.

The biggest competition for the Rapide is probably going to come from the top-end Porsche Panameras. The Porsche Panamera is going to win hands-down on price and performance – the Rapide is over 5.0 seconds to 60mph; the Porsche a second quicker – and the accommodation in the Panamera is far more commodious, especially for rear seat passengers.

But buying a car at this level is more about the heart than the head for a lot of buyers. And however hard you look at the figures there is nothing that puts the Panamera within a country mile of the Rapide in the looks department.



Read more: http://www.carsuk.net/aston-martin-r...#ixzz0gCw14ktJ

 

Off Topic question but do you think they might bring a 6 speed tranny in the V6... I think that would this one desirable car!

 

I remember hearing people make these same comments when the Cayenne was introduced and Porsche is selling a "few" of them. And what about the uproar when they went from air to water cooled. I think the Panamara is a great looking car and wish I could figure out how to convince my wife I need another P-car.

 

+1 The vocal minority will have little to do with whether this car is a success or not. I was one who early on said it was not pretty..... It has grown on me and as time goes by it will be come a more accepted design much like the Bangle BMW. People hate it but they still buy them........

 

If you remember Porsche before the Boxster you will recall that their dealerships were small and usually shared with another manufacturer, such as Audi. Even with Audi, also small at the time, it took maybe five minutes to check everything out. And then came the Boxster, and then the Cayenne, and then the Cayman. The 911 line was expanded to how many models? If you noticed, at least in major markets, the Audis moved out and the dealership was enlarged and redesigned. Many were built new and were vastly enlarged. All of this was because the volume of cars, not just the number of models, was increasing. Cayenne sold nearly twice as many vehicles as projected and is still their best selling model in most markets. The Panamera was known to be in development and the whole idea of enlarging the dealerships was to have room to display and service these new models. Do you not see the financial suicide that would be committed to drop the best selling models and try to shrink back to 1994 levels? It's not going to happen by choice no matter what the pseudo purists want to demand. At the size they are now and the facilities they've committed to, the company would go from one of the most profitable auto companies on the planet to bankrupt almost overnight. The Cayenne and Panamera have their own multi-billion dollar factories and the service bays at most modern Porsche dealerships (dictated by the factory) rivals the "big boys" in volume and technology. The practicality and yes, even the looks, of the Panamera will make it a winner and it will draw customers from Mercedes, Audi, BMW and Lexus. None of these offer the technology and sportiness of the Panamera and this feature is just in time for the affluent baby boomers who are getting too old to squeeze into a 911 but still want the caché that only a Porsche can satisfy.

Business, in order to succeed, is logical, not emotional. The days of small, specialized automobile companies is over. They can't afford the lawsuits, forced emission and mileage requirements and the safety regulations that are being forced on manufacturers these days.