Can you clarify - you have an error message that is specifically for front left corner camber out of spec? I didn't know the car could do that.

The car can monitor ride height, but that's not enough for it to know camber values.

I would not advise raising ride height at a corner to try and change alignment. It affects more than just camber. If camber at front left is out of spec at nominal ride height, find and correct the root cause - don't try a band-aid fix like manipulating ride height.

 

Car was driving funny on the freeway and decided to replace the upper control arm. While I was in there I decided to preemptively replace the strut. Upper arm Duralast brand and Arnott (new) strut. After work was done I had it aligned. Car was returned with that corner, (front left,) out of spec, too negative. Minimum spec is -0.58 degrees but it is at -0.65 degrees. Everything else aligns nicely except camber on that corner.

 

The corner s likely unable to be put into spec.
I bet if uou go back talk to guy who dud alignment, he will tell you that.
reason is because the bolts for strut still have play and you will have to loosen them,, tug on the strut in a particular direction,, then tighten the bolts.
It will be long for me to explain which way to tug at the strut,, buy in essence,, fund out which way your wheel is tilted,, then loosen and tug at the strut so that the angle is minimized.
will end another alignment to verify..
I had that happen om my front pass strut. Did as described above and re alignment was perfect.
I recommend lifetime alignment at Firestone for just that reason. As long as you own the cat, ypu can come get alignments without paying again. Cost extra 100 bucks over regular price, but well worth it.

 

Generally agree with ciaka, except on two items, one foolish, one important:
.

1. The Firestone pricing, lol - my Firestone wants $120 for a 12mo alignment, and $350 for a lifetime... Dang, I assumed those prices were corporate standards, maybe I should have shopped some other firestones for their lifetime prices.
2. The top strut (actually shock) mount bolts do not impact alignment. In a macpherson strut suspension like many BMW's, it does. In a double wishbone it does not. The spring and shock on Panamera is independent of the suspension/steering geometry. (Panny lower control arm isn't shaped like a traditional "A-arm" but it's still functionally a double wishbone / upper and lower control arm suspension)

If you got a tech that knows what he (or she) is doing, they should have set the right front camber to maximum negative to try and match the left front as close as possible.

If you got a tech that doesn't know what they are doing, then they may put right front camber "in the middle of the green, 'cause that's the best, right?". (note: no, nominal is not always "best")

Look at the alignment printout you probably got and look for cross-camber (or calculate it by taking the difference in camber values left to right). If your cross-camber is less than about 2 tenths I'd say just ignore it.

In fact, I'd say enjoy the extra bit of negative camber (as long as it's not creating a cross-camber issue). More negative camber is something that people frequently desire for more aggressive driving / increased cornering grip.

 

I paid 199 for lifetime. Maybe they raised prices after they saw how many times I took in my cayenne and panamera in for alignment check...lol

 

Thank you everyone for the input. I popped the hood open this morning. I was hoping to see the three bolts for the upper strut mount because I left all the coverings off. Nope, one is hidden under that pain in the ### cover underneath the wiper arm attachments. Scratch that idea. Last time I removed it I damaged the original and had to order a new one at the dealer. (I can't remember whether I damaged it removing it or replacing it).

​​​​​@sac02 Yup cross camber is out (red) and I can somehow feel it as I drive. I guess the negative camber causes extra drag on one side vs the other.

I'm getting more and more eager to try this setting and just raise the corner, or bring it into the dealer and have them deal with it.

Thanks @ciaka for posting the snipit of the specs. I have a sloped driveway and measuring height would just be a waste of time, no good way of leveling that I can figure. (In fact when I changed the transmission fluid I left the suspension on and put all four corners on Rhino Ramps. I let it take care of the leveling).

 

Well, I definitely followed that theory. Calibration meaning it thinks it's at xxx mm. But in actuality it's xxx +/- y. So if you give it a lower # it will raise to correct it because it thought it was higher. If you give a higher number it will lower because it thought it was lower.

I just replaced 409 on the front left with 406. Call me crazy. Used my Foxwell NT510 Elite....

 

jz,

"Camber pulls positive" i.e. it will pull towards the side with more positive camber. keep in mind there are other impacts to vehicle pull/drift, so don't get too laser focused on camber being the only reason your car could pull.

I'd again caution you against manipulating ride height to "fix" camber. Changing ride height will impact your toe and caster values as well. If you insist on doing it, at minimum set your desired ride height and THEN have the car realigned at the new ride height, otherwise you may fix camber but induce toe or caster issues.

But even with that said, it is still not a good idea. By manipulating the ride height you may be able to get the static toe/camber/caster alignment values "in spec", but the dynamic way the suspension responds will be different left to right due to the different ride heights. Each alignment value (toe/camber/caster) changes non-linearly as the suspension bumps and rebounds (you may have heard the term "camber curve"). With the left side of the car at a different ride height, the left suspension will be moving through a different part of it's camber and toe curve compared to the right side, and this will lead to things like the car handling different in right vs left turns, and things like bump steer.

Having the car at the correct ride height is absolutely necessary to a "good" alignment.

This is all assuming you aren't just messing around with the PIWIS because you have it and because you can (I can see my self doing this, lol) before having it properly diagnosed and repaired. 3mm is not a lot admittedly. If that's the case, go for it - just keep an eye on your tire wear because toe wears tires fast if it's out of spec.

Also, please note that those upper strut mounts you were trying to access are meaningless for alignment. The entire geometry / kinematics of the Panamera front suspension is defined by the upper control arms, lower control arms, and knuckle. The spring/shock is just along for the ride - it absorbs and damps road surface inputs, but it has no impact on how the suspension moves through it's motions.

 

I recently just replaced the whole front end but I keep eating tires in 4-5000 miles. I get bad feathering on the edges of both tires on the inside and out. I also get inner tire wear from toe out. Every time I get it aligned it's within spec. I just went out there and measured and my drivers side front is higher by a 1/4 inch. Would this be causing all the problems I've been having? Struts were replaced when I did the front end but I didn't do a calibration afterwards.

 

your inner tire wear could also be due to over inflation. Have you checked that out, ensure that you have pressure as per the sticker on your car?

Also, if you replaced suspension, it is important to note that the bolts attaching shock to chassis, still have play after inserting into the chassis holes. This means that once you tighten the bolts, there are few millimeters of play, which can make the shock be offset while you tighten it.
So if you know what your alignment is, you can look at the numbers and loosen shock bolts, then push in the shock in direction that can help bring a measurement into spec (especially if you are having problems reaching alignment adjustments into spec range).
Also, check the other components like the lower control arm and upper control arm. Once worn, they will cause the tires to wear differently, and can cause uneven wear too.
If you have the typical symptoms of LCA/UCA being worn out, i would replace them.
Also, the offcentric bolts that are used to align the tires, can be worn or stretched, which can cause your allignment to change. I would check all these. Thanks.

 

So everything you have mentioned has been replaced, but I'm on my 2nd set of tires all with typical toe out wear. The only thing I didn't replace were inner tie rods and wheel bearings. Neither showed any issues. Eccentric bolts were replaced because i was having issues with bolt stretch. When I bring it in for alignment it's always within spec but I still get the tire wear on the inside. The techs always get both sides almost dead on. My measurements for height are

Fl: 421
Fr:414
Rl: 402
Rr:408

Seems my front is a bit high after replacing the shocks 10k miles ago and I never did the calibration. Beginning to think it's needed when doing all the suspension work. Been chasing my tail on this alignment issue and thinking it might be related to ride height.

 

Per Porsche:

alignment should be done at normal height meaning no sport nor sport +

Switch off leveling system before work and turn it back on after.

On a LEVEL surface measure the heights from center of wheel to bottom of fender. Are they off from:

Front: 404 +/- 10 mm
Rear: 406 +/- 10 mm
(FULL fuel tank, spare tire and accessories or repair kit, but no passengers).

Alignment should be done at this height...

 

Shop manual is completely wrong. Anytime any suspension part is replaced a height calibration should be ran. It didn't mention this and says only when height sensor is replaced should a calibration be done. Cost me two sets of tires because my front was so high. After calibration all my alignment issues were corrected.

 

@ciaka how did you ultimately end up getting it even? I too am having difficulty getting it even. Im at half a day and i only got it in ballpark. I can get close but not spot on. On the mbworld forums when gls450 have this issue with uneven ride height it was wear in the linkages causing incorrect reading. I'm wondering if that's why there is such difficulty in getting the numbers lined up

 

More things I found trying to get this car level. If you go into one of the menus you can read the heigh deviation. The whole right side of the car had numbers jumping around. This led me to believe the height sensors are acting funny even though they pass the test. I took the ride slide sensors off and cleaned them. The front right was a bit rough when turning. After cleaning and a couple calibrations the car settled out spot on. So if your chasing your tail trying to level the car, check out your height sensors.