So I've searched the forums, and I see bits and pieces of info about our beloved TIP but no solid info. So, I figured that maybe we can make a thread that would contain all data known about our beloved tip trans. Especially the more common 2002+ version.

1. I've read somewhere that it is sourced from a Mercedes, let me know which one and I'll go digging in the diagrams to shed more info as right now it seems there is a dark cloud covering what is there to be known.

2. Seems like everyone has their own opinion as to the power levels it will sustain safely from stock to 700+ horsepower. Which one is it. What mods can be made to beef it up?

3. Is there seperate diff fluid in the rear differential or is it all together as one unit in with the tip using the TIP ATF?

As per manual and other sources.

Front Diff takes 1.5L
Rear Diff takes 1.2L

The Oil to use is Mobile Delvac 75W-90

As for the TIP so far we know it's the porsche ATF for the tip

 

According to the service manual, it seems the Difs (front and rear) take the same fluid (75w-90 Delvac), and the Tip uses ATF.

 

It's a guess but, I'm thinking the front diff and the tip use different fluid. And no, they are not one unit.

 

Well I know for a fact that the TIP and the front differential use different fluids. My question was about the rear which ttboost confirmed, and when I looked at it it seems correct as the rear diff has a seperate drain plug and a fill plug on the cover.

IIRC you actually had an issue with your tip when you increased power. Would you care to share what was done to your trans when it was repaired and if you did any mods to beef it up for your current power level?

 

Sure, I had the tranny rebuild with all NEW clutch packs at all gears.. That's it. No new gears were needed.

 

Did you do any upgrades to the converter? Do you feel that the new clutch packs will allow the trans to hold up?

 

Yea, I had the Torque converter tweaked by EVOMS. The new clutch packs are holding well

 

Do you think that the torque converter makes a difference in the trans durability or is it simply for higher stall speed?

 

I don't believe it makes the tranny stronger. It has allowed me to launch at a higher RPM from a dig. 2200rpm was stock, now I can launch at nearly 3000rpm.

 

Thanks for taking your time to pitch in your info

 

doesnt seem like any pros really weighed in on power limits of the tip, nor any availible "beef ups". can we revisit this?

 

figured i would add this to this post since it belongs here. im just not finding the answers im lookin for on the tippy but il keep looking and keep posted.

well the million dollar question and the question i have been scrounging for is where does the tippy fail? there is NOTHING definitive from anyone! the only person who will give you a number is white horse and he says 550 +- whp is a threshold for stock tippy.
i personally think it will handle a little more because automatics generally hold up a little better in other vehicles. but i am no porsche pro and have nothing to back this claim up other experience with american cars. i know when american cars are ready for real power they go automatic. but even these are not without upgrades. all i know is what i have put together on 6 speed. il try to put all i have gathered in one spot for you....and me....and the other chichtronics. i think if you go really big in a six speed, yah a clutch will help, but if you miss a gear few times your gonna break somethin in that too and synchros, etc. have you ever looked in one of those!!! what is all that crap!?!?

from what i have read, you will need at least a transmission cooler. gemballa has one but i think you can get it from MB or IPT cheaper. i also expect if you are pretty handy with a car you could have just about any oil cooler tweaked to run on the TT but i havnt explored that much yet.

there are also some solenoids in the tippy that seem to be a weak link that you can get for about $135 X 2 each from parts.com and really add some pop to the shifts. iv even read "PDK like". they are a mopar product that MB uses in some of their SL 500's and maybe the biturbo trannys. again not difficult to do if you are handy, just remove the valve body and these should be a snap. part number is 240 270 00 89.

torque converter is also questionable as to whether it solves any toughness problems. i say no, thats just not its job, but with that kind of power might as well do it. MB and IPT has one for about 900$ but it may require some "tweaking" to get it to fit. iv got a call in now to find out for sure. i bet ya TCI would build you one custom. the others iv seen from EVOMS are close to $2000, so it would be worth it to hear from IPT and MB or talk with TCI.

there are also some computer upgrades from various vendors for the tranny brain which up your rev limiter and spice the shift speed up and particularly down but again dont claim to add any beef.

however the bigest problem seems to be the clutch packs, specifically the ones in K2 K3 sections (where ever that is). users claim that these seem to be "melted together". obviously a function of heat, hince the oil coolers help! the only fix that makes since with these is to replace with the kevlar clutches and add 3 more clutch packs to get 9 versus 6. but even with this, it seems part of the tranny housing needs to be machined to make room for these additional clutches. this is obviously gonna be the most expensive portion of any tranny upgrade and certainly where the shade tree guy like myself gets in real trouble!!

i think if i were to mod my tippy in addition to regular new fluids, in order:
1.tranny cooler (100-500$)
2.TCU upgrade (brain transplant) $1000
3.Solenoids (275-300)
4.TC if the IPT or MB fits with minimal effort (tranny has to come out) do ur intake tubes then (900 or 2000$)
5. Clutch packs: ($$...??) personally, id wait to blow these and just pray that with 1,2,3, 4 they might squeeze by. i wouldnt do preventative maintenance here.

so best case $3000 can get you "some" beef (1,2,3,4) but thats provided 900$ TC fits. but even then 2500$ gets u 1,2,3. iv got no idea what it would cost to have someone do all this, but i bet it aint cheap!

i gotta save a buck, so if its somethin i cant do myself i cant afford it. but if money is no option, you could spend about 7-10000$ at RUFF or MKB or IPT on a tranny build and still not be totally sure whats next. i bet for this money you could have a sweet C6 or powerglyde adapted to fit and be done for sure!!!

 

Todd ( black horse turbo ) knows the tip and failure due to HP as well as any1.

I'm now going to look into upgrading my solenoids. Thanks pumptech!

 

From what I've been reading on the TIP and the other automatic transmissions, most failures are in the 3rd and 4th gear clutch- packs. One of the solutions that is being offered is the "high stall converter". I'm not sure and this is just a shot in the dark, but I know that on other automatic transmissions similar clutch-pack issues arise when the line pressure within the trans is too low. For the Clutch Packs to have enough clamping force to bear the torque. Therefore. if the line pressure is somehow related to the RPM at which the gears engage and maximum torque is transferred it would somehow make sense.

With that said the TIP trans is based of off a very popular MB trans, used in many high HP applications, with the transfer case Piggy Backed to it. There has to be elements that can be upgraded. The problem I've been encountering is the fact that no one seems to have a diagram or even a schematic with all the MB part #.

Trying to reverse engineer this thing , with the issued I've been having, (if you search my threads you will know what I'm talking about) is pain full. I've had parts shipped over from Europe and trying to find replacement parts without part# when the manufacturer only makes them to order is a major PITA.

One bearing took me over 6 months to tracked down as INA made it only for VW(not used in any car stateside) which was used as a Porsche specific part in a trans made by MB. Quickly you can tell how things get easily complicated. I'm working on replacing 4 more bearings now, two I can get locally, two I found in Lithuania....good luck speaking Lithuanian. Now I just need to figure out the tolerances and loads bearings I need to worry about....fun fun fun

 

First of all sparky, it's BlackHorse..

You seem to know quite a bit already. Why don't you go and find out for yourself what your transmission will hold. Why keep beating a dead horse..?