I thought I'd start a thread for those interested in tracking (or who already track) their 991 Turbo (and Turbo S). I have a 991 Turbo and have four track days in it so far, with a couple more coming up within a month. Here are my experiences and thoughts, for what they're worth.

Preface: My previous track experience includes a McLaren MP4-12C and a 997-2 911 GT3. I use my 991 TS for daily driving and as my primary track car. Since I do more daily driving with it, I'm not inclined to change any of the car's settings or alignment to optimize it for track use (yet). I'm not an expert driver on the track... but I do have a LOT of fun, as often as I can.

*** This car is an awesome vehicle at the track. When learning it, you can get incredible performance even with the stability control on. However, you will wear your front tires a little more because as brilliant as the SC is, it will keep you from the kind of rotation you occasionally want when exiting a corner. The trade-off is you're a lot less likely to over-rotate and spin (and if you do misjudge your line, your slide off the track is likely to be much more controllable, given the forced understeer of the SC).

*** This car seems to eat tires more than my 997-2 GT3. Given nearly identical tire sizes, I think this car holds better, turns in better, and is a little less likely to spin than my GT3 was once you've gained the confidence to turn off the stability control. During the periods following my failures to manage the car's post-apex rotation, I found the departures were predictable, and it's ability to go four wheeling through the grass quite acceptable. :-)

*** At least once per track day, the car throws a PDCC fault in Sport Plus (track) mode. When that happens, it drops you back into Normal mode and the fault won't clear (as far as I know) until you've turned the ignition completely off and back on again. That's kind of an annoying session interruption. It seems more likely to do this if you're tracking with SC left on, but I've had it happen with SC both on and off. I don't yet know why it's doing this. It's possible that it's happening during over-steer/drifting, and my dang car feels strongly that I should be keeping it pointed more in the direction of intended travel, but...really, how fun is that? :-)

*** After a track day, my PCCB brakes *really* grind horribly, and for a day or two of normal driving feel rough and sound noisy. Then they smooth out again and are good to go. This started after my second track day; I know not why.

*** Threshold braking down from 150mph in this car is a bit hairier than it ever was in my McLaren 12C or 911 GT3. It really feels like this car's systems are working hard during max braking to keep it pointed in the right direction. That said, this car's ability to slow down FAST is simply amazing. That also makes it a bit hairy when someone's following you closely, because you're pretty sure they can't slow down as fast as you can! The good news is that there aren't many other cars out there that will be close behind you at the end of a straightaway. :-)

*** If your car comes with the PAS (Porsche Adaptive Safe --adaptive cruise control), you're going to want to turn that OFF before heading out on the track. You'd think putting the car into track mode would do that. It doesn't. Few things are as disconcerting as having the car take over braking as you scream into turn one, simply because your Porsche's brain thinks coming up to 10-15' of separation on the car ahead of you, while going 90 miles an hour, is cause for alarm (and PAS intervention). You have to drill down into the settings to turn it off. Also turn off the vehicle's parking assist, for the same reason...

*** I specifically got a launch version Turbo S with the 5-lug wheels, because I didn't want to screw with changing CL wheels at the track (or at home, for that matter!). My GT3 had the CL wheels and I found them restrictive--I didn't want to change my own wheels at all. So it's been a bit frustrating to find that no one (Hoosier, Nitto, Hankook, etc) seems to be making a pure track tire in the sizes this behemoth needs. I've yet to find out if anyone's figured out whether there's a set of 19" rims available that will clear the ginormous 16" disks of the PCCB system and, if so, what the appropriate wheel and tire sizes would be to mirror the OEM setup closely enough to avoid confusing the car's finely tuned wheel management systems. I'm also wondering whether the increased traction that track tires will give will confuse the PDCC and rear-wheel steering....I guess we'll see!

 

Nice write-up. Thanks for sharing the info.

 

I look forward to hearing more on this thread - I also have just started tracking my 991 TTS with one day under my belt and another scheduled. I have not into racing with the car, just track time to improve my driving skills and enjoy the car.

One negative that my instructor has reinforced is that my skills will not be developed on this particular car because of the PSM (stability control). I thought about turning it off during the first session but decided I would not enjoy 4 wheeling through the grass! I am also concerned about chewing up the PCCBs as I already have a price of $5000 per rotor to replace them plus pads, labor. I don't plan to drive the car near its limits, nor do I plan to do more the 6 or 8 track days per year.

 

Leaving the PSM on doesn't necessarily mean you won't go four-wheeling--it just helps determine which direction(s) you'll be pointing when you do so. :-)

Personally, I've found my 991 TTS does it just fine. In order to find your (and the car's) limits, you have to exceed them now and then! YMMV.

As for the PCCB's -- I think they're a great system. They're a lot more expensive, but they last a lot longer, so I feel it's actually kind of a trade-off. Like you, I do HPDE's simply for the thrill and to develop HP driving skills that only come with seat time. I have no expectations of becoming a race driver. Certainly, getting to the point where you're running with the advanced group, with no point-by's, is thrilling enough!

 

I've done half of a day so far, only got in a couple sessions before I developed a boost leak (loose intake). Doing my 2nd day w/ the turbo this next Monday, so I'll have more impressions to post after that one. Even after one session on my local track (autobahn in joliet) last month I was running 8 seconds faster than in my 991S from last year. The car is ridiculously good. I'm hoping I don't experience the PDCC faults, but I'll be looking out for them.

Camisade, I'd like to hear more details regarding the comparison of the TT w/ the 12C. Why did you get rid of the Mclaren?

 

subscribed!
Nice write-up!

 

They're not a major problem, just a little annoying in that you have to interrupt your session, exit the track, to reset them. ...oh, and that reminds me, here's another 991 TTS track factoid:

*** The club I usually run with does 30-minute track sessions. I find that if I start with a full tank, (believe it or not), the 991 actually has too small a tank to complete two 30-minute sessions. It's actually kind of humorous, because your fuel usage is so high, that the low-fuel warning light, which must be triggered by mileage remaining until empty, comes on around the half-tank mark! So, at least in my case, if I don't add at least some fuel after the first session on a tank, I have to exit around minute 23 or so in the second session or I think I'd probably run the tank dry.

The McLaren 12C was a wonderful car, and was actually the first car I ever tracked (and I've been an addict ever since). And before the Porsche 991 Turbo S, I think it was the supercar that best managed both the demands of daily driving and performance tracking without really compromising either.

And if, like so many, I was one of those people who buy a supercar and then are content to putter around, placing no more demands on the car than you might a Ford Taurus, I probably would have kept it much longer.

But in my opinion, if you track a car, you really need a supportive, professional service center to back you up. Because no matter how well built a machine is, if you stress it then parts wear out or fail more often than they would under "putter around" duty.

The only McLaren service center in my region of the country is Chicago McLaren (Lake Forest Sportscars, in Chicago) and unfortunately their service center proved to be unbelievably bad. Even before deciding I wanted to use the Mac on the track, I needed service from them (once for the routine annual service and a few warranty repairs, and once for a defective side marker (turn signal) light that literally just fell out of the fender due to a plastic clip failure). Both times it was a six week ordeal requiring constant follow-up on my part to get the car in and serviced. It was so ridiculously bad it ruined the ownership experience for me, and showed me clearly that tracking the car would just be logistically impractical, because it'd spend too much time either awaiting service or collecting dust in their giant 2-acre service garage.

After trading it in for my 991 TTS, I wrote them a complete critique (and provided it to McLaren Automotive, too), so they would know why, having initially acquired a customer, they'd lost one forever to their competitors, along with any future sales. Hopefully that constructive criticism will help them improve their processes. I know that if I were in sales there, it'd **** me off to know the service department was degrading my sales chances!

With my local Porsche dealer, I get absolutely fantastic, highly responsive and professional service. As far as I'm concerned, that's REALLY important for a high performance car you want to track and can't (or don't want to) maintain yourself. As a result, I buy from them, now.

 

Thanks for the response Camisade. I was very close to picking up a 12C instead of the TT, but mainly went w/ the P-car since I am driving it 3/4 of the year. And as LFSC would be my dealer, I'm glad I didn't go with it, there would be no point for me to pick that car up and not track it. Now, I've just had a bad experience w/ Rizza Porsche, so I can't say anything good about their service dept, and will never go there again, but I've had great service at Napleton and The Exchange.

Oh, and the fuel tank thing was very annoying. I ended up filling up after every session, for fear I wouldn't have enough for the next one.

 

Great write up! May be using this

 

*** If you're on a track that tends to abrade tires (like one of those I regularly run on), taping your car up will save you a LOT of post-track clean up time. I use standard blue painter's tape. Because you're car is very likely faster than most those on the track, time spent following others waiting for a point-by or chance to pass is time spent potentially collecting rubber marks tossed up by the car ahead of you. Helpful note: Those big flared hips will also collect their share of rubber marks. Taping up those rear scuff pads as well as the nose will save you lots of clean up time. (This was never really an issue in my black GT3, but the first time I took my rhodium silver 991 TTS to the track I received a painful lesson on its propensity as a rubber magnet. I think it took me about 2 hours with bug-n-tar remover to get my car clean again!)

(As for the gasoline range, I think that's just a 911 thing through the years; my 997.2 GT3 had the same short range. It could do two 20-minute sessions, but not two 30-minute sessions. So, about the same as the 991TTS.)



I use painters tape as part of my track-day prep. It tends to save a good 1-2 hours of clean up time afterwards!

 

I recently tracked my car with a very experienced instructor in the right hand seat - someone with lots of hours in Porsches of all vintages, including significant time in 996 Cup cars. A lot of my observations are consistent with your comments at the start of this thread; but given my relative inexperience (4 track days) I would not have been able to articulate what I experienced without re-reading your comments.

Braking at the end of a 140 MPH run down the straight was very straight forward and smooth until I started to delay my braking and had to brake much harder, more or less at the maximum capability of the car. You're correct in your statement these cars can really slow down in a hurry, but I also sensed under the harder braking that the car was interfering somehow with all its systems trying to over-control the car. It was a little un-nerving at first - it was like the car was wiggling under me. Is this what you experienced as well?

I only ran with stability control on and the car was very controlled through most of the turns - I was pushing the car fairly hard for my skill level and was probably overly concerned about exceeding its limits suddenly and have to correct. My instructor told me I was no where near the limits of the car, but he did sense that the car's computer systems were interfering with the way he would expect the car to drive - he wasn't being critical of the car, but he felt that in a certain way the car was harder for me to drive than one without all the computer control.

For example, on one turn in particular I always felt that the car was pushing (understeering) slightly rather than have the tail come out - to me, again an inexperienced driver, it felt like the car was fighting me. Also when I took the same corner just a little faster and failed to tap the brake to shift weight to the front, suddenly the rear end came out 20 or 30 degrees suddenly. It was easy to bring it back in line (with the help of the stability control?) and I did not lift off the gas, but it was really the only time the tail came out and it was not in a controlled fashion - it was very sudden. The instructor also thought I might have run over some debris on the track, or turned in too quickly without proper braking - I wish I had been able to duplicate it to better understand what happened but was not able to do so.

I am not sure I want to continue tracking this car but will do so another 3 or 4 times this year in the Turbo S. I definitely want to continue tracking a car to improve my driving skills and just have fun (no racing in my future), and I want to drive the car to the track and back instead of trailering a track only car. I also think the stability control systems "may" detract from the track experience and more importantly my ability to develop driving skills.

In may not be a perfect analogy, but I have a commercial pilot friend who periodically takes out a small single or twin engine plane just so he can remember how to fly after flying 777s for a living!

 

In my experience, the 991 TTS (and most every other car) will absolutely understeer with SC enabled--that's the purpose of SC. It ensures you don't end up in an uncontrolled oversteer (or what I call a "ground loop" situation). Aside from being a safety feature, I'm sure this is also liability driven by auto manufacturers; after all, if someone goes off the road on a turn due to understeer, that is clearly a driver error; whereas if the car spins out on a turn, it's too easy for someone to make the argument that it's the car's design.

So the SC will definitely reel you back in if you are trying to experiment with rotation. In my experience Porsche's systems do this less obtrusively than most other manufacturers, with perhaps only McLaren's systems being more subtle about letting you feel that you saved that turn, rather than the computer...

To really get a feel for the car's capability, you have to develop the skill that allows you to confidently turn off SC, put it into Super Sport mode, and really hang it out there. I had greater success doing this on Michelin PSC's than the crappy PZero's that came on the car, but it's not something I recommend unless you've got a track where errors that take you off-track are completely forgiving (no gravel, walls, or other hazards to harm you or the car). You will push through corners a lot less with SC disabled--and I think it's actually a lot less wearing on tires (especially the fronts).

I'm definitely faster in the 991 TTS than I was in my 996 GT3, but will admit than I was more engaged in the GT3. But I love the 991 TTS more--every time I take it out of the garage, I marvel anew at the car's balanced brilliance.

So, I still track this car, and have a blast doing so, but (perhaps like your friend) have a C6 Z06 that I am building out by stages for when I really want to hang it out there or experience the kind of track performance that will simply never be available to a car that has to be left stock and on street rubber.

 

Thanks - your comments are consistent with my experience.

I understand that McLaren recently set up their electronics/software group as a separate business, or perhaps it preceded their road car manufacturing business , and may be provided stability control software to other companies. By reputation, this is a core competency of McLaren.

I was told that if you turn the PSM off, it will only come back on when the car senses an extreme condition - do you know if this is true, or does it just operate at a lower level of intrusion - I've heard both arguments. When you run your car with the PSM off, does it stay "off" as you work the car on the track?

 

I've begun running with everything off (PAS, Super Sport mode, and PSM off -- everything), and in the course of exploring the car's (and my) limits, I've had the car sideways, in the grass under varied slide angles, and am even "rumored" [ahem] to have rotated the 991 TTS off track through a full 720º (in the grass) before getting straightened out and back on the track without coming to a stop. The Porsche does not auto-enable nanny mode once you've turned it off (unlike Mercedes AMG's, for example).

FTR: Yes, safety is Job #1, and I never push my or the car's limits if there're any other drivers/cars on the track in my vicinity unless I know who they are, and they know what I'm doing (or at least trying to do) and have the experience to accommodate. That said, you never learn recovery skills if you never have to recover! :-)

 

I was not aware that you can turn off PAS (think you mean PASM) completely, only change its setting via selecting Normal, Sport or Sport + modes or select Chassis Normal or Chassis Sport with the PDCC/shock absorber button.

Do you normally run in the Sport Plus mode & paddle shift or let the PDK shift for itself? I've noticed that in PDK mode, the car sometimes in the middle of certain turns downshifts when I don't want it to and the engine torque slows the car until I get back on the gas.

I certainly agree with your comments about safety first, especially with other cars around, and that developing recovery skills is important - this particular car makes developing those skills more difficult than less sophisticated cars.

You timing is good, I will be back on the track next weekend for more drive education.