Change the rules? I asked for everyone to verify what rules they are willing to accept. NONE of you agreed to the rules you are currently playing by.



Dont worry though, soon enough, all will see the Emperor has no clothes on

 

so, lets just clear the air, you run the event, have a 991 tuned by the record holding tuner, refuse to show unbiased validation, and dont see any room for interpretation?

 

You don't have a 991 and I don't think your motivation was to come in here and **** a bunch of people off for the wrong reasons (which you clearly did). What exactly is you agenda? Is it to show the world (aka Internet forum) that your event is the end all/ be all and every other event inferior? Am I at least close?

 

No, i asked for a verification since its so easy to manipulate the system. All i got in return was excuses and arrogance. Once I did get a full verifiable log, It showed EXACTLY what i said it would.

I asked if they would all agree to the same rules that they are applying if someone else were making these claims and NONE agreed. how does that make me the bad guy?

 

Lost, I didn't know you were in charge of the rules? Start you own half mile event and set it up the way you want. Or just bring what you have and run it?????

Jeff

 

Well, the rules always been to back up claims with a system that cant be manipulated, AKA vbox. Those arent MY rules, they are OUR rules, as a community; cheating timing systems is now ok?

So your ok with over inflated speeds as long as it benefits you? All they have to do is move the sensors 6" closer together and you guys can all set records at 180+, its not like anyone will know, since the vbox is no longer needed i guess.

But I have a better idea, how about YOU as a racer DEMAND more accuracy, transparency and consistency, and then see what the cars run. I like that idea the best really

 

I'm not saying you are the bad guy I was just trying to make your intentions transparent. If you would have done that in the beginning I imagine you would have had some more cooperation.
I would be in no way surprised if a vbox was 2 mph different than a 1/2 mile event. The majority of the time the vbox is 2 mph different (higher) than a nhra sanctioned 1/4 mile track but people certainly don't base "records" of their vbox do they?
To your point of discrediting events because of this, why bother having timing equipment at an event in the first place? Make everyone carry a vbox and use that as the governing factor instead. Or don't have an event at all. I understand and appreciate your enthusiasm but your approach could use a little polishing.

 

ok, i misread your tone, sorry.

to clarify, from the very 1st time i posted i said my intentions, as from a proffessional standpoint and enthusiast. You can see since ive been on 6SO since 2011, i didnt come here to troll.

But to answer your questions on timing:

1. timing is everything, everyone is using the same system and for years ive heard that its not as good as a NHRA/IHRA strip. I proved this wrong. It takes time to set it up 100% as its a mobile/wireless system and the sensors arent in the same exact spot, unmoved, as strip is. HOWEVER, when you set it up and maintain it through the day, we've shown its every bit as accurate as those systems.

2.With the exception of SAC raceway a few years ago, VBOX has always read HIGHER than dragstrips. this is 2-fold, first because it used to only read the velocity max. now it reads both and has an algorithm to calculate the "speed trap" mph. in the cases ive seen lately, vbox's are reading LOW. if you want details on exactly why Nigels 173 vbox/175 SS3 slips dont match, ill gladly message you.

3. I never said every car needed a vbox to validate the runs, its nice, but not required. The only failsafe, if you will, of this system is that any bias applied to 1 car, will be applied to ALL of them (unless ist s special circumstance in which the promoter can physically go and move sensors in between runs- aka after the day is over and almost everyone but friends has left) I said that to me, the guy thats asking these questions, if even ONE other car could post corresponding time slips with vbox logs ( the more the merrier of course) then it would show any delta's between timing system and vbox

Ill say it again for anyone else reading this, im NOT saying they dont have records they claim, nor are the cars not capable of what they claim or even more; I am saying I would like to see the MPH they claim verified in some way. Additionally, I would like to see ALL people participating in these events demand more. Its been show that it can be done. It takes more time and effort, but to me as a racer/enthusiast, it is the SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT thing to do (other than safety of drivers) because that is the sole purpose of the event

 

Sounds pretty clear. And lost, because you're calling out a lot of people here…Don't ignore the fact that all of the cars get timed on the same system. No one's answering you because it's never been an issue. Now if you're saying that any of my guys are manipulating the system when their car runs that's a whole new can of worms. Agenda is pretty obvious on both fronts. I expected more out of certain people.

 

Refuse???? Several times Mitch and I post it that didn't have the run record it because the memory stick haven't been format...

 

I think I have to start a new thread, I am sincerely sorry ive taken it this direction.

But let me clear a few things you said

i am not calling out people, at least not in the context I would use. I am asking for clarification and transparency

I said, everyone is using the same basic components provided by RA, that is because its the best there is for a wireless system. Every event you know of that does straight line timed events is using RaceAmerica, up to and including Dragtimes. This is because it is so good and accurate

The difference is that inches matter to this these. It also take a bit of knowledge of how racing events work. Did you know that dragstrips calculate the mph with a 66ft speedtrap? I hope so. Did you know that the finishline sensors are placed exactly on the finishline, not 33ft after the finish- you would be surprised because the system and common knowledge is that it measures an "average". but the algorithm used is meant for 66ft before the finish, not 33ft before and 33ft after

Did you know that if you measure the 66ft from outside foam box to outside foam box, your actually at 65ft? Did you know that at 65ft it will read about .75mph high for a 100mph pass? Did you know that it only gets more inaccurate the faster the pass is? 150mph pass is now about 151.5, but it doesnt grow in a linear fashion

did you know that in direct sunlight or extreme cold that batteries die faster? Did you know that once the batteries start to die it affects the sensors ability to read? Did you know that a normal AA or C battery will last 8-10 hours in this system, however, it will fall below 50% within 3 hours, and below 50% you will get timing "drops" in which the system thinks the sensor was tripped and will calculate a much higher mph? Did you know it can also work backwards and if the 1st beam isnt tripped but the 2nd one is, it wont read it at all?

Lastly, I will NOT say that your guys are manipulating the system, not yourself or cobb or anyone other customer/end user ( not including event hosts as there is a conflict of interest) There is NO WAY you could physically tamper with it.

Like I said, I believe most cases of inaccuracy are just a lot of small variables that when added together make larger outcomes.

 

several times i said that as someone with access to the racers, show me ANY corresponding time slips, of ANY car. Much like this entire thread, you have been defensive without fully comprehending what i am asking for

 

There were TONS of people at the PR event including underground racing. I'm certain someone has vbox data for comparison somewhere.
As I mentioned before, no one knew your intentions when you came in the thread the way you did. Webcar put a ton of effort and created a world class event unlike any other. I can see why he would take exception the way you questioned it. That's why I asked what I did a few posts ago, so that your intentions were clear.
Definitely shoot me a message with further info. I'm a ***** for data.
As far as 1/4 mile sanctioned traps to vbox, I haven't seen anything change to where the vbox isn't reading 2mph higher. Is there an update?
Btw, probably best to start a new thread specifically talking about your concerns. There is an engineer, wrs, who would certainly engage you regarding timing equipment and vbox data. Plus in a dedicated thread, people would likely be more apt to share their data. I'm sure everyone could learn something from that. That or it would provide a more neutral ground for an argument to take place

 

Enjoy your record my friend, you earned it!

 

I want to take you is genuine. No hard feelings. But maybe you should take that up with all of the event coordinators and have some sort of the union. I'm sure everyone would benefit from it and there would be less drama. There's definitely a backstory and a lot of shade throwing so hard-working guys get sensitive about it. Until something like that comes along that I want to agree with you everyone will benefit from…If you want to measure the true performance of the car and i'm not positive because everyone did not have a Vbox or have it ready…if nothing else you can compare it to the other cars from the event that day. But in the interest of trying to help people it comes across as calling out claimed performance. If someone does great at one of your events we will take their claims with honor. If yours are any others event is in accurate it Will show. These events and their results are nothing new. At the least you can compare all the hardware that's out there at the same venue. It's like how some cars can do really great at one track but never too well at another. There are so many factors.

Fair enough?