Congrats on the purchase--both Jeff and jatus. The 650S is an amazing car and I am totally smitten by the 488.

The 650S is very light; between that, the aero, and the power they make they are speed demons. A stage 2 setup with upgraded cats and a tune is beastly. The dyno says it picks up about 80wtq and 40whp, but the car picks up about 10mph in a 1/2mi race (from mid/high 150s to mid/high 160s). The extra midrange makes it hit like a 911 Turbo, versus a vaguely naturally aspirated feeling powerband like it has stock. We make a turbo kit adds about another 100whp and another 10mph to the 1/2mi speed on top of the Stage 2 numbers. We are about to release an intercooler upgrade for it to improve consistency so it puts down those numbers more often. Let me know if you're interested in more details.

Sam

 

Hi Sam you guys do great work but I'm looking for you to reconcile what you said above with my previous post. I believe the Mac I referred to has an Evoms tune/turbo and hasn't performed anywhere near the levels you are noting at the Shift Sector events.

 

+1 I thought that Armik and Steven A's turbo upgrade 650s was trapping in the high 160s -- not high 170s.

 

Actually most runs that I saw were like 163. Could have a been a couple runs higher than that but don't recall anything in the 170's.

 

These cars run an air-to-water intercooler system. The cooling circuit for the intercoolers is shared with the wet clutch system, and intermixes with the main engine coolant in the expansion tank. The heat exchangers for this 'low temp' IC/clutch cooling circuit are in the front bumpers, and do not have fans.

In normal use, this system is pretty consistent but gives high intake temps--in 80F weather driving on the street or track the car will normally run at about 50-60C intake temps. As long as they stay there (which they do if the car is moving, the air:water system is pretty consistent by design because of its thermal mass) the car makes awesome power with our turbo kit. 5.2-5.3sec 60-130, 141-143mph trap speeds, and 172-175mph 1/2mi times. The Stage 2 setup with stock turbos does roughly 5.8sec 60-130 times, 137-138 trap speeds, and 165-167mph 1/2mi speeds. As an example, here's a race between me in an EVT825 12C vs Vivid Racing's old shop car, running their tune and exhaust: . This was done at the October 2015 NFZ AZ event in 85-90F weather. We did a 40mph roll and I trapped 174 with 100oct in the tank.

Standing start half mile racing is a different particular set of circumstances. The car stays running in line while queuing up without air moving through it. It then does a launch control start which puts an enormous amount of clutch heat into the low temp cooling system, and then goes 100% duty cycle for a brief period of time before the system can cool down. This particular sequence results in intake temperatures rising to around 80*C, which is high enough for the ECU to start pulling back boost and cut power. On top of that, Steven's car is not running drag radials, so until the car gets going around 80mph there is a lot of wheelspin. We've limited power on the car in gears 1 and 2 because of that, but there is substantial wheelspin until the ground speed of the car is about 70mph.

So all that being said, that car is here right now receiving a prototype intercooler upgrade meant to solve a modicum of problems. We want to bring the intake temps way down, closer to ambient than a stock car runs. We want to increase thermal capacity on the system, so we don't run into thermal runaway issues on the 800hp cars and a new 1000hp+ kit we're doing. And improve clutch cooling, as right now the clutch will get too hot and throw an overtemp warning if you ride the launch control for more than 2-3 seconds before leaving. All of these issues are present on stock models, even the 675LT, but adding close to 200hp over stock amplifies them. We'll be running a couple events in March and April to test this new system out, and will probably roll it out to all existing EVT825 customers from there.

Sam

 

First Jeff sorry if this is derailing your thread. We can move to another thread if you want.


Sam - thanks so much for the detailed explanation about modding the Macs. And best of luck getting Armik's car dialed in. Now it makes sense to me that at Shift Sector, between runs Armik's car was fitted with multiple dyno-grade fans cooling it down....and the car could only make a couple of passes each day. Certainly not a fun scenario.


And a point of clarification about your EVT825, I attend most of the OmegaMotorsport California and AZ airstrip events. Your 174 trap speed at NFZ AZ rolling 40mph from the cones is great but it would translate to mostly likely high 160's on the vBox 1/2 mile. It's because at NFZ AZ is half mile from cone to cone. Please ask Tony if you need substantiation. If you ran that event from a dig at the cone, that is a true representation of the car's 1/2 mile mph. Rolling at 40mph obviously would give a higher trap speed. That's still fantastic in that heat and the minimal slope of -0.5%.


By the way I used to love watching Mayhem run back in the day and am a huge fan of your work.

 

Fair point about the rolling start affecting trap. We have yet to run one of these cars with everything sorted in ideal conditions that aren't at weird altitude or high temp. Talk's cheap and so on, but these new parts should give the car some more consistency and show what it's made of. Hope to see you out there, we absolutely respect the results you've gotten at these events.

Sam

 

Stage this, stage that. Every tuned mac I've seen in person barely makes a bit more power than a stock one. Stevens car kept breaking down and running like garbage with a giant support team trailer and 50 guys with fans around it. It got smoked by a 10 year old 6sp bolt ons pcar still with cats and sh*tty gas that drove to the event and back with 0 support.

ive ran a few macs from a roll too and it's not even close. Sorry I don't buy those low 5s 60-130 times. Maybe the car can do that once and then the dash lights up like a billboard and call the tow truck.

650s is on my list for a track car still, great bang for the buck in stock form.

 

Congrats!

So those of you who who have decided to leave the TTS for an Mc or other, what are your thoughts? I use my TTS as a daily driver for the most part (along with a '17 Raptor). Comfy? As well composed as the Porsche? How's the ride? I think we know the speeds are there, enough anyway for me. Just curious. As much as I love, and I mean love the TTS, I usually get sick of whatever I have quickly. Although I'm looking to trade my '16 for a '17, I'm also considering others. Believe it or not, wen thinking of the Bentayga. Not sure why but a great priced low mileage used one might be something. Thanks for the feedback and didn't mean to hijack.

Congrats again- gorgeous Mclaren and Ferrari!

 

I wrote a whole book but page timed out so here is the short version.

Background:
Had a 991 turbo s cab Cobb stage 2 with techart bodykit for 6 months. Traded for a huracan, had that for a year. Now I'm in a tarocoo orange 650s spider.

Exterior in terms of attention:
Huracan >Mac>911
ALOT of attention in the Huracan, even in a low key color like grey. Mac is almost as anonymous as the 911, no one cared.

Interior:
911>mac>huracan

Huracan interior is futuristic, but poor material quality and visibility. Not a fan of the virtual cockpit as critical information like the tach moves around in different settings. It is design over function. Mac has a traditional layout but better quality, great visibility and you feel like you are in a race car, the seating position however, is on the tighter side for me. I'm 6 ft and 180 lbs. 911 is better than both in quality and performance, although the layout is a bit boring.

Power:
911>huracan>Mac
Huracan power delivery is linear. Mac feels strong on the top end, but the 911 feels explosive up to 100mph which is what i care about.

Handling:
911>Mac>Huracan
Huracan handles well but feels odd and artificial at lower speed, ride is rough as i didnt have mag suspension. Mac handles extremely well and rides like a 3 series when you want it to be, it does get tail happy as its RWD. 911 rides just as well, and i feel the most secure in it at all speed.

Reliability:
Huracan>911 Mac?
Huracan is the most reliable car I've ever owned. Zero issues, not one error message. For a first year model exotic, i think its an amazing achievement.
911 had minor issues but could be due to tuning.
Mac is too early to tell.

Bottom line:
If you want a reliable super car and feel like a celebrity everyday, get a huracan. However to me it lacks drama and soul(whatever that means) it does everything well, but lacks the practicality of the porsche.
The mac is the car to get for yourself, it is a drivers car that requires your attention and it will reward you with an experience like no other. if you have something to prove to the world, get the lambo.
If porsche made a super car that looks exotic, has the same performance and quality as the turbo s, it would be the ideal car for me.

 

Well thank you for the long and SHORT of it. LOL.

To to be honest, there is absolutely nothing about a Lamborghini, any of them, that attract me. Can't say same for my kids or friends but to me, no way. Mclaren interests me as they can be had reasonably as compared to a TTS but not sure about reliability. Although the TTS or any other 911 is old hat in terms of looks, it's not ugly I get plenty of daily thumbs up (almost as much as our old '14 and now '17 raptor) with the Porsche but that's not main interest. I truly enjoy the way it rides. I don't do stage 1 or 2 or any stage. Don't track. Just like the handling, speed if and when needed and general reliability.

Mclaren has had a look I like. Not sure if it's lower or harder to get in and out of as I haven't even sat in one yet. Looking ata Bentayga if I can find a lightlynused one reasonable enough. Not sure why, never owned a Bentley but I hear they drive great. Different animal altogether.

What i I think I want to do is swap my 16 for a 17 if I can cut the right deal. Used or new.

Apprwciate your time and feedback!

 

sorry i got timed out again, in and out of meeting so apologies for the poor writing, added some more stuff in my broken reply lol.

yes the lambo is almost like car that you get to please OTHER people.

 

Pix of the 3 cars..

 

Great first hand comparison details. Interesting that the Mac flies under the radar. From my experience Macs get way more attention than the Turbo. Especially in that color. The Turbo gets 0 attention until they see you run lol.

 

I was surprised as well. Perhaps I'm just used to the attentions from the lambo.
But in the 650s I feel like I don't even need to tint the windows. In the lambo I find myself constantly rolling up the tinted windows as it is embarrassing to get photographed everywhere.