Case in point when it comes to power output of new models, it seems that magazines always give Porsche a bye:

The 996T Made 420 HP, 450 HP in X50 form and ended up making 444HP in the Turbo S model... when the 997 Showed up making 480, it was reported that it made 50 MORE HP than the 996 in every magazine. In fact this was a 20 HP jump over the 444HP final 996 it replaced.

The 991 carrera (base) makes 350HP and the S makes 400 HP. Anyone who nows Porsches knows that 400HP is LESS than the outgoing 997 cars with the optional "power-kit" 3.8 carrera S, also seen in the GTS and Speedster (408 HP).

Expectedly, Porsche will give us a bump in power in three years or so.

I am always disappointed at the really slow ratcheting of power from Porsche. On top of that, I'm floored at the price tags on the showroom floor. A 997 TurboS is within $15K of the brand new 08-09 GT2.

I'm not sure if this is the product of the Euro/$ price difference, but some of the more desirable cars have suffered a significant price hike in recent years.

 

Dont worry Ari on the $ you've got a l-o-n-g way before you catch up to us aussies. How little you guys pay for your cars is astonishing to us really. Agree with you on Porsche's drip feed trickle of hp though! Now that's annoying! For the money you'd rightfully expect something that can at least outpace other cars that sell for less than half the money. Just my .05 US cent of a rant.

 

I think they should make it like a 'custom' hamburger eg let you pay extra to dial in about 50 more ponies. With P it would be a lot extra though...LOL
J

 

I see your point yet there is also a flip side .

By keeping the Hp increase and styling changes conservative

1) it helps retain the value of the previous car . (it's nice to know that buying a Porsche offers a long term peace of mind that the next car doesn't outmatch the last one by a huge margin) .

2) Allows them to warranty the car and its parts more economically and thus allows a 4 year 50K offering . The 993 for instance was only 2 year .

3) the car is offered to the general driving public and with marginal increases the potential for accidents or traffic citations remains within a range . The last thing porsche would want is ordinary drivers crashing on public roads . They can always increase slowly but they wouild have a harder time trying to decrease .

4) Keeping it close gives an owner something to look foward too . There is a limit to how fast a car can be for street use and if porsche offered it back in the 1960's then no one would buy the same car . eventually sales would decline .. like the Acura NSX ..and the model runs the risk of going out of production.

 

Right on! One only needs more power on the track, not street.

As far as price hikes, I think it is mainly due to the weak US dollars. In Canada, a new Porsche 911 now is actually cheaper than few years ago.

 

Ari I couldn't agree with you more. It was only a mere 10 years ago when Porsche was the leader in the HP wars. Our TT's dominated the competition. The TT's #1 competitor over the last 15 years has been Ferrari and Porsche has basically dominated that contest or minimally held its own: 96 355 vs. 993TT, 01 360 Modena vs. 996TT and 07 430 vs. 997TT. With every new model, the gap has closed until with the 997 there is no loner a gap and the 458 Italia simply has more HP. Now we all know that Porsche has traditionally been conservative with their HP figures, but that doesn't mean that they need to abdicate their role as the market maker in this area. I'm really looking forward to getting a 991TT but if its got the same HP as a 997TTS I'll take a pass. IMHO the 991TT should have at least the 570HP of the 458 and Gallardo.

 

And Ferrari has been notorious for using monkey business in the marketing of their cars... ie, specific test cars "massaged" for a reviewer vs. those everybody else gets...

 

Don't hold your breath until the 991.2..

To be fair the TT still kicks ferrari butt. Porsche has a lock on the durable, over engineered everyday supercar for sure.
I wonder how long Ferrari will keep up the high revving NA game. Almost every company has abandoned that.

Nothing provides the torque and mid-range power of turbos. That said, I would love to see a 550 HP+, 8400 RPM Porsche. Obviously they have the technology. Even Corvettes have higher redlines these days. 7,000 rpm is so 1990.

Targa Tim: I'm digging the white flag on the Blue GT3! Got any better pics?

 

It is the standard decals on a blue/gold GT3RS.

 

perfection...man that is sharp

 

How much power can Porsche ring out of that flat 6 and keep it reliable b/f they have to replace the engine with a more conventional setup I think is more the question?

Lucky for Porsche there are plenty of diehards out there who will keep buying them with minimal increases......

 

Hi Larry. On todays scale this appears to be no longer the case. Porsche's concept is/was sound but the outcome on todays scale unfortunately doesn't appear to reflect or support the thinking any longer. Well...not to the degree it used to lets say. I remember back in the good old days when production numbers were far more limited and these cars werent so easily and readily available to those seeking to buy one on the new or used market. So the prices held nice and high...ie: the $ bath was small for the new owner seeking to sell out. On todays scale however a 200K purchase (USD) can quickly turn into half the money not very far down the track at all. It's now more a buyers market IYKWIM.

 

Good points in here...

I will say that Porsche would probably up the HP more if the competition and the car really needed it. I continue to be surprised by how much performance even the base Carreras have compared to their competition (cars that are much more expensive).

The price hikes and continued rise in production numbers are really killing residual values on these cars. 997.1s can now be had in the low 50s and 40s and these are cars with low miles, extended warranties, and very competitive performance figures even in todays market. Shocking considering many of these cars were 110K+ 5 or 6 years ago.

996TTs and 997TTs offer again, shocking performance for the money in the used market. This is a great thing for the buyer looking for an everyday super car for not a lot money. Sad for the 996TT owner that bought new and has seen 50% to 60% depreciation over 8 years. However, consider the Ferrari 360 owner that is selling his baby for 65K....

100% agree that the 996/7 TTs are the super car bargain of the decade and a true reliable performance car when compared to a used Ferrari or lambo.... But things are changing fast with the renewed use of turbo charging.

The GTR obviously will continue to be a giant killer. My question, what will happen when BMW launches a V6TT M3? The new M5 is already setting many records in its class and beyond. A TT M3 with 400 ftlbs of torque from 2000 RPMs (just a guess) will be a giant killer in its own right. How will performance car manufacturers respond? I do not see the Carrera being a true competitor to the M3 if the new Bimmer stumbles near the 500hp mark with torque to match, despite how big or heavy the new M car could be. We have seen turboed "sports" cars like the Evo and WRX slice through competition with ease especially in modified form. Now imagine that same kind of performance and modability in a much more refined and capable platform and price that will surely continue to undercut most of the competition price wise vs. performance.

Jason

 

Yes and herin lies the problem for the new 911/991, Porsche, and it's loyal customers paying the premium $ to be in one, and usually taking an ugly hit on exit. Whilst the atmo 991/991S is a brilliantly engineered peformance package the car will quickly become vulnerable to the substantially cheaper and less engineered "turbocharged" competition. At the race track the P car will out last and out shine the competiton, but in a DD street environment, where most of the driving is done, the competition can quickly remind you of how much you've been outdone. The PT on the other hand is far less susceptible to the upcoming competition due to it's out of box performance being set at a very high bar. Usually if a newer faster less valuable and engineed car comes out, just add a tune and/or a few goodies to the PT and it's problem solved . Yes, long live the PT! It's a real problem solver! PT's main problem is GTR and there is no disputing the GTR reflects a bargain performance package....and with a less $ hit on exit (mainly due to its cheaper entry price).

 

Peak hp is purely a marketing number. One only needs to drive a newer GM vehicle with anything other than a V8 to see this. Their 300hp vehicles have virtually no power until the very tops of their rpm range, and drive like gutless slugs. They've got the gutless slug performance to back it up too, being slower than older models despite having much more hp in many cases.

I applaud companies that do not seek marketing things such as peak hp in favor of USEABLE power. That is likely what Porsche has done (Chrysler's SRT group did the same thing with the new 6.4L engine, it was making over 500hp, but they scaled it back to 460ish hp so it had better power curve and more torque). Don't be fooled into thinking that bigger numbers equals a better vehicle, or even better performance.

Furthermore, I've always seen the 911 Carrera versions as more of the perfectly honed sports car that can be an every day car as well. If you want the crazy performance car, the Turbos and GT2/3s are where it's at. Not to say that normal 911s aren't good performers, but that they are designed around everything working together as opposed to all out performance and number chasing.

And as many have alluded to, there is a definite performance limit for what's acceptable/safe on the street. And frankly, most 911s are already far above that level for around here, even used ones.

The new M3 is expected to be around 440hp, and it will likely have startling performance for that number (again, it's all about that power curve, not the peak number). I think the next giant killer will be coming out of Korea. Rumors are that a supercharger version of the Genesis Coupe will put out 450hp. That's going to be a heck of a performance bargain if you can get over the brand, like the styling, and can live with some cheap materials.