Funny thing is a Porsche has always been renown for its soul, so if some feel it has lost some well at least it had some to lose.

IMHO 991 definitely has soul and still does. I can't see the pdk as been soulless either for that matter, as again there are too many other things working for the car that give the car that special "Porsche" character.

Soulless in a motoring sense has been a word primarily attached to Nissan's GTR by the wider motoring journalistic and aficionado community. So, JasperGtr don't shoot the messenger. It's a fact (as you should be aware) so if you have an issue with that then by all means please go take it up directly with theses people and not trouble us porsche owners with any justifications thank you. This is not a 991 vs gtr debate.

Porsche on the other hand has never made cars that have been widely criticised by the journo's and motoring aficionados' as being completely soulless. So until that time comes and we start reading how the 911 is the same as GTR in that sense, then 911 still officially has soul.

Porsche as a company has always excelled in producing cars that are very satisfying to drive regardless of technological advancements/improvements/options, and so on and, the general journolistc reviews confirm this is still happening. Evolution of the 911 is making it faster and more efficient, whilst also keeping the competition at bay.

If some 911 owners don't like 991 they are always welcome to sit in the earlier cars. That choice is always available. But to moan about it or suggest that real men drive old cars that are harder to keep out of the bushes at the limit is plain silly.

 

ZZZzzz

No lost soul. And I've owned several pcars. Now I own a 991 fully tricked out and this one is the best and every bit a 911. I rode in a 997 yesterday and I'm so glad I don't own one of those anymore. It was sooo dated - felt like a 10 year old car.

 

so lets see, the 991 is first & foremost lighter than the previous version; it handles better, it is faster on the circuit & and in town.

Yeah - the founder of Porsche would definitley have thumbs downed the 991 and called it lacking in the spirit of the company's design objectives

 

I don't think anyone is saying the 997 is better...at least I'm not.

Do I like it better................absolutely....hands down....no contest!

Tom

 

As a lifelong manual driver, I do agree with the comment at PDK looses something much more significant than most drivers are admitting.

A manual might be slower in the quarter mile, and maybe even around the track, but I'm not willing to give it up.

Now if anyone wants to know how a real Porsche felt, you should have driven my 356. The seats sucked, no ac, the transmission was awful, the skinny bias ply tires were scary and the drivers side window rattled. Man do I miss that car after 20 years without it, but I wouldn't trade a modern Porsche to have it back.

 

The new 991 has soul and then some.
Of all the automobile companies out there, Porsche has done a great job of keeping it's heritage and soul in every new 911 model.
If I ever get tired of my 997, I hope one day I'll move up to a 991 C4S!
Hooray for progress!

 

lol! Just saw this...

I've known all along what soul is, when people compare the GT-R to the 911. I've known what it was decades ago. I'm just utterly amused how people use it to explain the superiority of inferiority.

It is a defense mechanism. And when somebody gets called out on it, people revert to - you wouldn't understand... or - it's personal.

So, to leave the GT-R vs 911 topic aside - I was amused earlier, because here we go again, but it is 911 vs 911. Soul vs no soul. Which is why I'm enjoying this thread so much. Let's not digress, though - I love to hear another 10423 definitions of soul.

I'll add that a journalist putting down the GT-R as having no soul earns credibility with the primary demographic of its readers (also noted in the WSJ review of the GT-R last year), whereas a journalist reviewing the Porsche saying it has no soul? Thin ice, running the risk of alienating the large base.

 

LMAO!! Trust a GTR owner to come up with his own take on the soulful 911 vs the soulless GTR reputation. Damn those journos and aficionados eh .
No doubt about you jasper...

 

The 991 is undeniably better than the 997 in some attributes, but not as good in other attributes. Some of these attributes are objective (eg, lap time), some more subjective (eg, steering feel). So no one can say that either car is objectively better overall. Both are comparably great cars, but different. Personally, I prefer the 997, but to each his own.

Also, I don't buy the argument that purists have always initially rejected the new generation, but gradually came to prefer it, so the same will happen with the 991. Just as with the stock market, the trend can finally change direction. It's indeed possible that many people will continue to look back at the 997 as the best generation of the 911.

All of this said, I still plan to drive the 991 more, in the hope of eventually falling in love with it. But unfortunatley it wasn't love at first (or second) drive.

 

Journalists, as of late, are becoming pure entertainment, and less informative. It has become about the bottom line, instead of accurate reviews (see BMW M3 vs 911 Turbo, where the M3 wins - C&D, I think).

Soul - as it is being used here, is no different than a 997 owner vs a 991 owner. It is a defense mechanism "my slower 997 is better than your electric steering 991, because the 991 has no soul."

It explains the superiority of inferiority. There is more to this, though, but that along with my own interpretation will remain out of this thread.

Speed - try to ignore the car that I personally own, it is not the only car I've ever driven.

Look at what Jeremy Clarkson said about the F40. How many 993 owners said the exact same thing about the 996? I'd say a whole lot more than are saying it now.

 

Point taken....and noted....no argument from me on that.

I know that, but you sure do get carried away at times defending the indefensible

 

I don't consider it defending, but rather attacking the accuser of false information. I don't feel I need to defend the 991, but I certainly feel that people who degrade the 991 because of something many have never experienced is just wrong.

 

This is an ideal expression of an opinion. It is about preferences -specifically noted: "Personally, I prefer the 997, but to each his own."

Not: the 997 has soul, and the 991 does not.

Manifold - well said. Hopefully journalists can follow your example (unless they believe that a lot of their subscribers still own 997's).

It is also IMPOSSIBLE to ignore that there are many payoffs, and if Porsche wants to sell 991's they would do well to give incentives to journalists to offer a great review, and give greater incentives to not be favorable to its competitors. Obviously, this happens. Which is why we all take them with a grain of salt, looking forward to individuals that we trust a little more with their own personal experiences.

 

Agree both have soul so talking about that on a brand so notorious for its soulful driving experience is a bit pointless. Possibly the OP overlooked that point when he titled his thread.

That's a bit of a stretch Jasper. So what you are essentially saying here is Porsche paid all the Journos and the officionados (for all that soul) and Nissan didn't? Hmmm Gotta say jasper youre good. You sure come up with some funny stuff....and can't knock you for trying If Nissan were smart they ought to let the moths loose out of their wallet and pay you as a field rep. You'd be great value for dollar

 

I am not singling out Nissan as a competitor. But this happens in general.

And this is not isolated to car magazines... This is not a stretch - it is business. I would invite anyone in the car review/magazine industry to refute this.