yeah, the new 911 appeals to a lot more people than a Singer or any other old school 911. don`t get me wrong i think those old classics are stunning cars and they will never lose their appeal but putting new parts into an old car is not a solution for today´s customers, it needs more than that to sell a significant amount.

 

I view posting links to another forum as being similar to posting links to reviews by car journalists. Since the RL discussion raised some points that I haven't seen raised in 6speed, I found it useful.

 

Your counterarguments actually make it clear why you like the 991 more than I do.

I agree that the 911 has continued to evolve over the generations, with the change from air to water cooled being significant. But I think the change in driving dynamics from the 997 to 991 is far more significant, more revolutionary than evolutionary. With revolutions, you get something fundamentally different, and intentionally so. Sometimes it works out better, sometimes not, and it often depends on who you ask.

As far 'beating' the GT-R, etc., no, I'm not concerned about beating its drag racing and lap times. I've driven the GT-R back to back with a considerably slower base 997, and I enjoyed the 997 much more, again mainly because of the driving dynamics which are (were) unique to the 911. And the 911 is still plenty fast, even in base form. How fast do you need to be on public roads, or even on the track?

And regardless of any speed 'deficits', the sales numbers showed that the 911 was already beating other sports cars by winning on its own terms, using its own recipe which no other brand had even attempted to copy. The new recipe may have more mass appeal (time will tell), but the 911 was meant to be a special car designed for people who love performance driving and are appreciative of nuances which the masses won't even notice.

 

Those that think this gen is not a 911 must have really had a hard time when the weight went up 600 pounds and they put carpet in it and when they put a reasonable sound system in it and the wheelbase was increased (twice) and when the engine became water cooled and when they put air conditioning in it and when they put power steering in it! I've had 11 911s since my first 1966 normal and it seems to me this is still a 911.

ChuckJ

 

Ultimately, I think it comes down to how the cars feel to each person, which is somewhat subjective. We can look at physical design parameters and performance numbers, but the driving experience is really the key question.

To me, the 991 feels different enough that it's no longer a 911, but I respect the fact that you have a long history with the 911 and your feeling is different.

The fact that we, as 911 fans, can have different feelings about the same car is itself interesting, and that's part of the reason why I'm not yet tired of these debates about the 991. Plus, I'm continuing to listen to the opinions of others and continuing my test drives in the hope that the 991 will grow on me (the first time I drove a 911 it felt weird to me, especially the feeling of the nose becoming light under acceleration, but it grew on me with time and as I learned to drive it, to the point where it now feels like heaven on wheels ).

 

OK having owned an 06 cabS, and a10 Coupe S, I will say that the 991 cab is vastly superior to both with regard to torsional stiffness from what I can feel. Im no professional driver, but have driven a wide variety of the vehicles, and this one is the stiffest. It seems to have little to no noticable flex, and is absolutely a vast improvement over 06 Cab! The vehicle feels as glued to the road as my 997.2 coupe, and will probably be more often on the track than the last Cab, given these considerations.

 

The repeated posts on RL over the last few months to me seem to indicate there's more to it. The reasons stated above might make sense if you had posted your opinion once or twice, but the volume of negative posts (your posting of the links in this thread being a great example) betray something else. I am trying to understand what compels you to do this.

 

In Adias's defense ...he had the same passion and MO when there was the PDK vs manual debates.

 

Is that a defense? Seems like it might be just the same behavior applied to a different topic.

 

997..., because some fear change.

Everything before it was old and outdated, everything after it is too much of an advancement and numb.

/sarcasm

 

Internet Brands owns both websites, and they are mostly interested in revenue from sponsors, so that a wash cross posts are welcome.


I'm not sold on the new 911. The interior seems to have left the enthusiasts out from the reports of the speaker and just the overall ergonomics if it are a bit flashy.

But don't forget, that interior design (specifically the center console/ shifter) started in the CGT, and everyone loved that car and what it meant. So I could see how they ended up putting it in the 911, for a higher class feel.

I think it's ok for the 911 to adopt some characteristics from the other models because we all know the others borrowed heavy from the 911 to begin with. I'm not a fan of all the gadgetry, but at the end of the day, we have not seen the GT cars yet, and options are good for the brand, so the people who aren't enthusiasts and purists can still enjoy the ride.

 

He doesn't need a defense...he can post what he likes and you can ignore what you like and you can post what you like.

IMO he has not taken any more of a passionate approach to posting on the 991 debate than on other debates. Its his style. That's all I'm saying.

But its the same old stuff from each side:

pro 991: better car; newer technology, 997 guys cant afford it.better styling
pro 997: better feel, more trackable, more of a 911, better styling

Pro 991 wish to justify the high price on the 991 so they get defensive....997 guys take exception that they cant afford it or they are against progress....they get defensive.

SOSDD

 

thanks HC..i didn't know that...then forget my objection.

 

IB owns both forums.

 

This is the stuff that bothers people. Thinking we cant afford it. Or that they made bad decisions in getting the 997.2 or gts.

I have a 997.1 that is worth maybe 1/3 the price of a new 991.

But I spent $2000 yesterday on track insurance for 9 events and $1000 today on new brake pads and a brake flush with racing fluid. My pads lasted 5 event days.

Add the seats, harnesses, anti-roll bars I put in this year and then the event fees, coaching fees and it would be cheaper for me to lease a 991 and not track it and go around with my neat new car; showing off the great interior.

Or I can track my 997.1 and smile more than I could on any road in america.

Leave the pricing crap out of the discussions. It doesn't fly.